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EPISODE DESCRIPTION

Since childhood, the only consistent thing in her life was inconsistency — constant moves, shifting caretakers, and a survival instinct that taught her the best defense was a good offense. But when a ruptured appendix became a near-death experience, she was forced beyond the veil and came back with all the answers.

Patricia Scibek is an oracle, writer, and adventurer living in Egypt. Through divination, mediumship, animal communication, and intuitive guidance, she helps people navigate both the visible and unseen worlds with greater trust and clarity.

In this episode, Patricia shares her cinematic journey—from a premature birth that had her in an incubator, to the horses that taught her how to regulate and trust herself, to the deadly experience that awakened a deeper relationship with intuition and transformed the way she sees the world.

Through a live Soul Arc Astrology reading, Laurel reveals the birth chart signatures of survival, nervous system regulation, spiritual awakening, and the alchemy that becomes possible when we stop dismissing our sensitivity and start honoring it.

If you've ever sensed there was more to this world than you could explain—or wondered if your sensitivity might actually be your greatest gift—this episode is for you.

CHART TEASE

A chart built to survive anything and metabolize. Patricia's placements speak to a lifelong reckoning with protection, belonging, and the slow discovery that the most powerful container she could offer others was the one she first built within herself—through horses, through martial arts, through revolutions, through death, and back again.

IN THIS EPISODE

• Losing a second mother figure before age one & what that imprinted early

• A premature birth, constant moving & grandparents as the golden ticket

• Manifesting a horse at seven and what it actually taught her about trust & nervous system regulation

• Martial arts since thirteen & mastering survival through structure

• Growing up without religion and staying open to the unseen world

• The near-death experience that changed everything

• Living through two Egyptian revolutions

• Founding a nonprofit for Indigenous women's self-defense

• Letting go of martyrdom & why oracle work expands her instead of depleting her

"I came back with all the answers and none of the questions. You have to prompt me. You ask the question and I'm like — yeah, I know this."

"The horse gave me stability. It gave me trust. It gave me consistency. The only thing consistent in my life before that was inconsistency."

"This is the only thing that makes me expand. Everything else required me to shave off pieces of myself. My oracle work doesn't."

ABOUT PATRICIA SCIBEK

Patricia Scibek is an oracle, writer, and wanderer based in Egypt who has spent her life moving between the visible and invisible worlds — literally and figuratively. She offers pay-what-you-can divination rooted in the belief that intuitive guidance should be accessible to everyone, and her readings draw on tarot, mediumship, animal communication, and past life regression.

Website: psoracle.com
Social: @psoracle

CONNECT WITH LAUREL

Laurel Kassor is an astro-oracle, biz strategist, and the founder of Soul Arc Astrology™ — a system that turns birth charts into precision tools for real-world impact. She hosts Made for This, where she pairs guests' lived stories with live chart readings to prove, episode after episode, that astrology doesn't happen to you — it happens through you.

Website: soularcastrology.com

TRANSCRIPT

Laurel Kassor (00:10)

Welcome to Orbit Seekers. This is episode six of Made for This with Laurel Kassor the podcast where soul-led practitioners, educators, and creatives come together to connect the constellations of how astrology turns from abstract insight to real-world impact when you follow your soul's arc. I'm Laurel Kassor your Astro Oracle host and founder of Soul Arc Astrology, and today I have the absolute pleasure of sitting down with my very own birthday twin, Patricia Scibek Patricia is an Oracle writer.

And lifelong wanderer, currently living in Egypt. A self-described horse girl from North Dakota with too many hobbies to count, she spent her life exploring both the visible and unseen worlds, communicating with animals, trees, and the dead while building a business rooted in intuition, storytelling, and a deep spiritual connection. Her life has taken her through revolutions, natural disasters, and extraordinary adventures that seem almost too cinematic to be real. Patricia, thank you so much.

for taking the time out of your movie life to come join me here.

Patricia (01:13)

Ha ha.

Thank you. It means a lot. You're awesome. Finding out you were my birthday twin on threads was like the best moment ever. And then finding out it was the same year, I was like, my God, we can compare and contrast. It's awesome.

Laurel Kassor (01:26)

It has been such

a trip.

Patricia had said it best, It's like we're living in different fonts.

Patricia (01:34)

Very

much. I love it so much.

Laurel Kassor (01:36)

Patricia, I am so excited to have you on today. I'm excited to learn about your life. Like, my gosh, the tiny bits and bobs that I've gotten are very different from mine, even though we are birthday twins. so it's gonna be really interesting and fascinating to see how different color palettes painting the same picture. Almost, you know what I'm saying.

Patricia (01:44)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Exactly.

Laurel Kassor (02:01)

Before we dive straight into how the hell did you get here, I would love for you to talk a little bit about just like how you work with people, what you do.

Patricia (02:10)

Yeah, of course. So the way I work with people is I offer divination. My main goal with divination is to keep it extremely accessible to folks. I offer pay what you want or what you can services. And when I say divination, I mean things like I often use tarot cards. They're more as a compass and the rest is channeled. and that can be anything from what's up ahead or how to navigate this chunk of time in my future, how to navigate these heavy emotions, et cetera, et cetera.

But it also does go into work of missing people. it can go into area of animals animal communications, past life regressions, and mediumship. So really anything in that realm is what I like to work with. And that's really it.

Laurel Kassor (02:49)

That that's really it. It's

only it's only like Jack of all psychic trades much. Wow. But that's it. No, no big deal. No big deal. So before we hear about your story, I just want to share with the audience that because Patricia and I are Astro twins,

Patricia (02:54)

Ha ha ha

Laurel Kassor (03:08)

She does have an Aries sun and Aquarius moon, but she is a Gemini rising. And so that is the real shift point between us. And so I would love if you wouldn't mind taking us back to the beginning so we can hear how your life

has lined up with your birth chart. Now, I do have a technique that I like to use to kind of help jog the memory because life's big and vast and winding. So let's pick a s starting point, right? So in your chart it does look like

Patricia (03:33)

Mm-hmm.

Definitely.

Laurel Kassor (03:44)

Mars was the first planet that fell after your ascendant. And in this technique that I use, that can sometimes indicate that there was a big formative moment where you met, finger quotes, met the energy of Mars firsthand. Now your Mars is in cancer, it is in your first house. and so we can imagine that this event, this formative event, would have something deeply almost.

Patricia (04:03)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (04:10)

do with like survival there's double survival themes with Mars alone and also in the first house that kind of stacks up on pillar one I call it which is the impact or survival pillar and yeah it would have been about a a maybe well tiny bit after a year old does this ring a bell for ya

Patricia (04:12)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Okay, so tiny bit after a year old would have been what I'm thinking is what's coming up and what I know about like my history and my family. So my mom had a best friend. Her best friend was very much a part of my beginning years of life, from my understanding, and very much a part of my mom's life. And she was also my godmom. this friend had heart failure. So she would actually pass away around that time period.

And this was the type of best friend that someone has that like that's a soul connection. Like my mom I don't think ever had a that connection again with a female friend. and I think that was a lot. I mean, my mom was a single parent, losing her best friend, lived away from home. Like I I can't imagine carrying that grief and having to care for a child. So I think what happened was a whole world got flipped upside down and I was

In the middle of it in some way, shape, or form. And I'm probably sure it was all over the place and how it went down. But I also spent a lot of time with this woman who passed away. So, in a sense as well, I'm sure my infant brain registered that as two parental figures, two motherling figures and one gone. You know, so I mean that's a voice if you go back to Anne Utero that I probably heard from the jump. I mean, that's your best friend. So I'm

identifying it as that 'cause I think it echoed out for a while and probably echoed deeper than I have any idea, but I can imagine.

Laurel Kassor (06:00)

A hundred percent. I mean, this is Mars and Cancer, right? So there like from the moment you said mom, I I wasn't surprised when you said mom right out of the gate. I'm gonna pull in the other aspects too, because it's not just that it's Mars and Cancer, but it it is Mars and Cancer, but it's a mom's best friend mom was s a single mother, so I

Patricia (06:03)

Yep. All the feelings. Yep.

Laurel Kassor (06:19)

you know, can't stress enough that this friend was o was likely a secondary mother, like she a hundred percent. And I love that you brought it back to the in utero. I wouldn't have even thought of that, but you're a hundred percent correct. Like you would have heard her voice talking to your mom. Maybe even that was the person you heard your mom talking to the most besides you.

Patricia (06:40)

Exactly.

Laurel Kassor (06:42)

You know what I'm saying? So like, yeah, that would be really, really deeply enmeshed, but not only that, it's also like the the idea of Mars being a f a force that can sever, right? just one of the many Mars topics.

But it really can be an aggressive, it can feel maybe very aggressive and forceful. But it's in cancer, so it is about protection too. So it especially if your mom retreated afterward and withdrew afterward.

Patricia (07:03)

Yeah

Laurel Kassor (07:14)

I could a hundred percent see how could be part of that. But your Mars is making aspects, which is really interesting. And mine too to these same energies. It's like I feel you, queen, I feel you. but your Mars is making quincunxes Now these aren't aspects that are talked about very often, or if they are, they're treated like minor aspects.

Patricia (07:17)

Exactly.

Love it so much.

Laurel Kassor (07:37)

Soul ARC astrology, we divide the chart in 12. So that means everything is divided in 12, right? So we look at aspects that are 30-degree sectors or segments are major in this system. They each have their own family that they belong with. And in this case

Patricia (07:43)

Yeah.

Okay.

Laurel Kassor (07:53)

We have the interesting thing where Mars is making a quincunx to both Saturn in Aquarius and your moon in Aquarius, which are conjunct each other. So this pulls in in another layer of the lunar aspect. We have Cancer as one feature of it, one stack, I call them pillars, right? So we have pillar one, which is Mars in the first house.

Patricia (08:03)

Okay.

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (08:19)

And

have them stacked up for like survival and force and just like living and navigating and being in the world, right? And then we also have some pillar four, which is the support pillar, which is the moon and cancer and the fourth house and the opening square aspect. so we have this double-up of like, we have some tension when it comes to our support energy. And then we also have Saturn.

Patricia (08:39)

Yeah.

Mm.

Laurel Kassor (08:46)

jumped

in here, which creates boundaries and restrictions and limitations. it can create a sense of lack and scarcity, right? And kind of desperation on its lower bits, right? I also want to just underline that you were like to my child brain. Like, yes, I can't stress that enough. When we talk about this early fate, these early, early phases of time and awareness.

Patricia (08:54)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (09:11)

you can only interpret it to the ability of your current level of consciousness and to a one year old, they're not gonna be able to logic and make sense out of that. And this is kind of where the quincunx energy itself comes in. Because the quincunx which is the aspect connecting your Mars to your Saturn Moon conjunction, the quincunx has there, well let me say it like this, there are two varieties and you have both at the same time.

Patricia (09:22)

Yeah.

Okay.

Whoa

Laurel Kassor (09:39)

Isn't that fun? Isn't that fun?

Patricia (09:40)

Great.

Laurel Kassor (09:41)

We have fun here with our quincunx from Saturn and the Moon and Mars! So there are two varieties. There is the opening quincunx or the waxing quincunx, which is what you have between Saturn and your Mars.

Patricia (09:48)

this is great.

Okay.

Laurel Kassor (09:59)

And that's because Mars moves faster than Saturn. So Mars was making the opening quincunx. It was making that aspect, moving from Saturn. And then there is the moon, which is a waning quincunx, because the moon will move very fast and catch up to Mars soon. that's the difference. And it changes the frequency at which they are uniquely experienced. Okay.

Patricia (10:16)

Mm. okay.

Okay.

That's so awesome. It's amazing. No, no, I love it. It's great. It's this is awesome.

Laurel Kassor (10:30)

jumping right into jargon here.

It's we're breaking it down like little piece by little piece because this not only is gonna make sense to like, yeah, that was like a really intense and I see how this template got set early, but it makes sense of other patterns you've experienced that have resonated out from the template,

Patricia (10:42)

Exactly.

Yeah.

That's exactly it where I'm like, huh.

Laurel Kassor (10:53)

So what's interesting here is that the

The agent force, the planet Mars, is very much about like, let's fucking live, bitch. Let's survive. Let's learn how to protect ourselves to survive. That's how we do it here. Sometimes that might mean withdrawing because emotionally you may have sent your own mother withdrawing as a form of protection against the hardness of the world around her, and you're a Gemini rising, so even though we're talking about Cancer stuff, you.

Patricia (11:10)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Exactly.

Laurel Kassor (11:23)

Those first several months were very dual. Like there were two. There were there was an echo of your mother. shut the fuck up. Like

Patricia (11:28)

Exactly. Yep, that.

Laurel Kassor (11:31)

Like it was probably

fun and stimulating and lots of learning. And then it and then we learned we gotta actually protect ourselves because all this fun stuff does not last, And that's part of that quincunx to Saturn That is like, we have to figure out which is the nature of the connection from Mars to Saturn. It has a pillar six undertone to it, so it has like a Virgo or a Chiron feel or a six-house feel, so it says.

Patricia (11:34)

Mm-hmm.

Yep, exactly.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Laurel Kassor (11:59)

y you want us to practice rules?

Patricia (12:01)

Ha

ha

Laurel Kassor (12:02)

I had to

do what I had to do to survive, bitch. Like, what do you mean, rules? Like, what do you mean, expectations? What do you mean success? I'm just trying to live another day. Right? And then Saturn is like, but you gotta succeed at this somehow. You and Mars is like, this is really hard. You want me to fit into your normal boundaries? You want me to fit into your rules and your expectations, etc., etc., etc. And at the same time.

Patricia (12:05)

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Laurel Kassor (12:28)

There's an aspect happening from Mars to your moon, because guess what? Everyone's in on this shit together. that aspect says the moon is in a waning quincunx or a or a closing quincunx to Mars. And that has the energy through line of pillar eight, alchemy, which is Scorpio, Pluto.

Patricia (12:30)

Mm.

Okay.

Laurel Kassor (12:50)

The eighth house. Hello. There's the death piece. And that one's from the mom. That one's to the moon. Right. So there's that very literal and symbolic at the same time where the emotional epicenter said, care, nurture, death. Actually, you gotta learn how to protect against that.

Patricia (12:51)

My mom's a Scorpio. Yep. That makes sense. Yep. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

And also you keep saying protection. It makes a lot of sense because I was a preemie as well. So I spent a good chunk of time like in an incubator. Like there was not a lot of like that care was like I think I was physically distanced for a moment in the very beginning. And I was also born like a umbilical cord wrapped around the neck, like blue, not breathing. So I think and like my lungs and stuff were really sticky and I had to still really form.

Laurel Kassor (13:19)

shit.

The Aquarius moon.

Patricia (13:37)

So I think I was in already a state of protection. And then that happened right away, just as I was maybe starting to get out of it. And then the body probably closed back.

Yeah, I think about it a lot.

Laurel Kassor (13:48)

my god.

Whoa. That makes wow. Thank you for sharing. Yes. Like, whoa, yes. as you spoke, like I probably even said it out loud, Aquarius moon. Like there's that Aquarius moon i in with Saturn.

Patricia (13:55)

Yep, figured so.

Laurel Kassor (14:03)

S so this is so fucking interesting. 'Cause it's about survival and so like this ener I'm like flapping my little autistic hands right now. I'm so excited about I mean this is what we call astrology good for sure because like I'm so sorry that you were a pre- you had to fucking fight for your life and then you lost one of your caregivers so fucking early. And yet as observers, we do love to observe.

Patricia (14:13)

Exactly.

Mm.

Exactly.

Exactly. I mean, I'm fascinated by it. Like I I love my life now. Like everything I've been through, I wouldn't change anything. So looking back, I'm just like, wow, this is so freaking cool.

Laurel Kassor (14:34)

to see how we create it.

something out of these original frequencies. We've taken these frequencies and we've turned them into something really fucking functional and usable, which is I mean, we're skipping ahead to the end there, but like that is the coolest thing about it. And so what's really frickin' interesting is that moon Saturn conjunction for you is like I wasn't a preemie, but they did have to pull me out of my mother. So this is a fucking fascinating thing. Yes. I was a C-section.

Patricia (14:49)

Yeah.

Does

Okay, so there is still a traumatic birth.

Laurel Kassor (15:06)

And yeah, and so like I wasn't ready to budge, and I came out underformed too because my ears I had to get tubes put in my ears because I was born half deaf. Okay. And we have the same aspect of Ceres opposite. I know I'm skipping ahead, but like we have Ceres opposite Mercury, and we both we have them both retrograde at the same exact fucking degrees in Libra for Ceres and Aries for Mercury. this is my first time.

Patricia (15:05)

No.

I see.

No, this is so cool.

Laurel Kassor (15:31)

learning that you were a preemie and that you were also underdeveloped at birth and like fucking sane. And so this is just fucking crazy.

Patricia (15:32)

This so cool. Yeah, yeah.

It's just one

more thing where it's like, yeah, the lines It's wild. Yep.

Laurel Kassor (15:44)

different fonts, dude, different fonts.

Whereas you came too early. They said I was too late and they pulled me. Even though I was like, I'm cooking, bruh. Like let me cook. Let her cook. That's crazy town. Okay.

Patricia (15:55)

I love this. Right.

Laurel Kassor (15:58)

But to circle back to what I was originally saying, the moon in Aquarius conjunct Saturn and making these quinkunxes to Mars for Patricia.

the experience of being in an incubator even as a small child, even though that wasn't the exact thing that I pulled out from the chart immediately, I guess, you know, we can say

Patricia (16:18)

Mm.

Laurel Kassor (16:20)

you know, we can I'm like I don't mean to hedges, but like we can say that it was normal to you at that point. It was normal. You were born and then you were in a t container. Like that's just no that was just life. But when losing the other caregiver, that wasn't normal. So that's where there was that impact moment of the formative stuff. But even from the get-go, the moon in Aquarius is known for distance and being disconnected.

Patricia (16:26)

Exactly.

Exactly. Cool.

Exactly.

Laurel Kassor (16:45)

Right. Saturn is and and in a container. Saturn creates borders and boundaries. it was so literal. That's why I fucking freaked out and then went on this like long scenic path back here.

Patricia (16:47)

Yep. Yep. Literally distanced.

Ha ha ha.

Fantastic.

Laurel Kassor (16:58)

that is so wild. So what we can surmise that that imprint would have laid forth into baby Patricia is that again we really have to protect. We have to defend. We have to create borders and boundaries if we want to survive in some way. We have to navigate the world knowing that.

Things can change suddenly, emotions can change suddenly. That the structures that hold you there, hold you together, and take care of you can't always be dependent upon. And so we might have to learn something, or learn how to protect ourselves, find the practical skills, the Saturn to Mars quincunx is.

Patricia (17:35)

Yep.

Mm.

Laurel Kassor (17:45)

Bitch, you gotta learn the skill set you gotta master a skill set t for survival, which I know what yours is. I'll let you tell everyone here in a second. But also you need to be able to alchemize the danger.

Patricia (17:47)

Ha ha ha.

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (18:03)

emotionally into s into something that can be literally transmuting fear into expansion. because these planets are in your ninth house. So into growth in some way. plenty of other ways I already know like you are living abroad. moon in the ninth house, hello. Moon and Saturn in the ninth house,

Patricia (18:20)

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean the the it's survival, the survival thing and the protection. I mean, I am to a degree an adrenaline junkie, but I think it's my form of protection. anytime I've needed like anytime I've I've been in bad relationships, you know, and anytime that happens, I do crazy things like hike 90% of the peak, the mountain peaks in western Montana in eight months because why not?

In the winter. Like

Laurel Kassor (18:45)

Airy

sun ruled by this Mars we're talking about. yes yes

Patricia (18:50)

Exactly. I got div It's that. I mean, I got

divorced and I learned how to sail. It's just

I'm an endurance horse rider. I like the extremes. I I like hiking. I like hiking to the backcountry. Like I'm an ex like extreme if I can't do anything half-assed. Like if I do something that's just all the way to the end. And I think that's ironically a form of protection that started very early because I learned that if you just power through and you physically are moving, you can create things. And that's been the backbone of my entire existence.

all the way up until I started leaning more into this. Cause I've been doing this work for eighteen years, but the last five years I've leaned into it full time and extremely seriously. And it's only been since those these five years where I've

Slowed down and accepted and focused on the Oracle work. This is it gives me freedom, but it also makes me slow down. I run very quick, very fast paced. There has to be things going. I sleep hard too. Like I rest hard, but I play hard, like we're gonna go on a five week road trip kind of thing, you know? So it's definitely played out in that.

Laurel Kassor (19:56)

this is the beauty of astrology for me.

And why it's a circle, right? we specifically started by talking about Mars and then making a connection. And then you naturally speak to other aspects of what that Mars is up to and what that Mars is doing, which is having a huge impact on the decisions that you make. Because the decisions that you make as an Aries sun, because the sun is the fifth.

Patricia (20:04)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (20:18)

Pillars planet, the fifth pillar is the pillar of consciousness that has to do with the creation energy, that has to do with self-expression, decision-making, performances. It is the sun, it is Leo, it is the fifth house, it is the opening trine, okay, the waxing trine. And you so organically segued to

Patricia (20:26)

Makes sense.

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (20:41)

If you're moving, you're creating. Okay? That is verbatim, an Aries sun statement. I cannot

Patricia (20:48)

Really? Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (20:50)

kid you I am not kidding I can't kid you I was literally driving up to a retreat I I was facilitating for my friend's retreat and on the ride up there I was just thinking about how movement is the source of all life like I was just thinking I was like man if a heart stops moving you're dead man if a brain stops firing synapses you might as well be dead right I was like if a planet stops moving well a planet can't stop moving right like it keeps

Patricia (21:03)

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (21:17)

In orbit, it keeps moving. And I was like, and of course, pillar one impact, it is the movement pillar. And so, like, it's so funny that you just took those words. I was literally thinking about this a few days ago, and you just said it out loud. We have the same fucking birthday. We're both Aries Suns This is what I'm talking about being in same, same different fonts, right? you are absolutely correct. To create is to move, especially if you're an Aries Sun person. And how you create, yeah, it's gonna be in the fucking Aries way. So

Patricia (21:30)

Exactly. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (21:44)

adrenaline junkie, daredevil. push it, push it to the limit. But it's sourcing from Mars and Cancer.

Patricia (21:49)

Yeah.

Yeah, it is there's emotions behind it.

Laurel Kassor (21:58)

And with the moon and Aquarius, I believe we have these early formative experiences, and we spend the rest of our life finding better ways to resolve the pattern. And that's our work is, you know. So I love that you just introduced that little piece of the puzzle here where it's like, even if you're

Patricia (22:06)

Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (22:16)

Talking about one piece of your life, this is exactly how it feeds into other pieces because even though your sun is its own motherfucking entity making its own motherfucking decisions, it is informed by what Mars knows of movement. It's so super cool. Okay, so

Patricia (22:33)

Exactly. I love it.

Laurel Kassor (22:38)

That's a really big piece of the puzzle. That's gonna come in again later. I know it will. I also want to zoom us a little bit f forward in your timeline because there is Chiron. So it looks like maybe around let's call it three and a half or four years old.

Patricia (22:43)

Yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (23:02)

would have been when you likely would have had your first four forte with the energy epicenter that is Chiron. Now this is also in cancer, so we can assume at an early childhood level that this is mom or something to do with caretaking or something to do with home. Right? What's interesting about your Chiron is that it is conjuncture south node. So

Patricia (23:10)

Mm. Okay.

Laurel Kassor (23:29)

Chiron in my system, just as a super brief recap, is the planetary force that we associate with Virgo energy, with the sixth house, and with we had talked about it before, the opening quincunx the one about figuring things out. Right? So Chiron in my system is very much a problem-solving planet. And the South Node, which it is right next to, nestled up with the South Node.

Patricia (23:39)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (23:54)

I look at as almost like a byproduct of us living our life. Like the energy that comes out of the South Note like us taking a shit. You know, it's just like you if you wanna live, you gotta poop. You know, if you wanna eat more food, you gotta poop. You're just gonna and you're gonna dump

Patricia (23:58)

Mm-hmm.

Fair. Yep. Yep. It's just gonna happen. Yep.

Laurel Kassor (24:13)

what is excess, So it doesn't mean bad. Poop is neutral. Like it it can just be like poop or it could be fertilizer you choose, right? around this time though, yeah, four three and a half four

Patricia (24:17)

Yeah, yeah.

Exactly.

Laurel Kassor (24:25)

Something about fixing, something about correcting, something about there being some kind of problem that at the moment would have felt very large, maybe. It could be some kind of outpouring, it could be a sense of loss, too. That South Node is, you know, about getting stuff out of the system. Is there anything that stands out around that time?

Patricia (24:35)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So I believe that time period would have placed us

Let's see, if I remember correctly, that would have placed my mom in college or grad just having graduated college, which means we would have been moving. And I think this is at the time where she was so busy where the sense of home was not static, which it never really was my whole life, up until arguably still not, because the patterns repeat.

Laurel Kassor (25:10)

Mm-hmm.

Patricia (25:11)

But I I think that's at the point where you know, my great grandma took a lot of me, my grandma raised me a lot, my grandpa spent a lot of time around him, my older cousin. I remember family members a lot, you know, and just like different homes. And I think it was just the general idea. And I know we did move at one point too, I believe, to Nevada, maybe at the tail end of that. so

It's that's what's coming to mind for me. And especially the way you framed it, you're like, how are you going to like how would you view this? This could be viewed as extreme instability. This could be viewed as like, you didn't have like the proper setup and caretakers. But honestly, I that was the golden ticket. Grandparents are amazing. I am so grateful that I grew up around my great grandparents and my grandparents. I mean, that gave me everything. So for me, golden ticket.

Laurel Kassor (25:33)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Patricia (26:02)

but it does present oftentimes as, my god, there's no stability. And arguably it did have impact. I've moved a gazillion one times in my life.

Laurel Kassor (26:10)

So one of the things I I love

that you're bringing up here because it's really interesting because I know I'm asking about when you're just like a young person, like a baby. Like you were a baby and it's so hard to remember those things.

Patricia (26:18)

Mm.

Laurel Kassor (26:20)

What's interesting is about maybe even just less than a year after what I was eyeballing in the chart comes the grandparent planet. So I think you very naturally was like instable at first, but hey, then then I was like fucking Opportunity City, which totally makes sense. Chiron being conjunctor south node tracks with hmm, I don't have the right setup. Like as soon as you said that, I think you were speaking directly into the frequency because this is in your second.

Patricia (26:28)

Yep.

Exactly.

Laurel Kassor (26:49)

house of stuff of belongings of possessions of consistency also of ownership and so this would have been where we would have realized and in cancer home family members chiron in my system is i mean planets aren't technically like

Patricia (26:54)

No, that's not a concept.

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (27:08)

fixed or cardinal or mutable but it's associated with what would be a mutable pillar, right? So it's like I would look at Chiron as a planet that is about

Patricia (27:10)

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Laurel Kassor (27:17)

shifts and tweaks and adjustments and refinements, and the problem, you may have at some point inadvertently, and I'm not trying to like put ideas into your head. I'm just framing how I could see this play out. Is that you may have inadvertently interpreted or internalized, my care is an inconvenience. And I get shuffled around to whoever can take care of me.

Patricia (27:28)

I know.

Thanks.

I literally just asked my partner like this morning. I was like, am I annoying? Am I too needy? Am I

Yeah. It's a constant theme, yeah.

Laurel Kassor (27:50)

So yeah.

and Chiron and Cancer, the problem that they're constantly trying to solve is a problem of where do I belong? Where am I accepted? What can I call home?

Patricia (28:01)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (28:04)

In the second house, it has a lot to do with stability and it has a lot to do with consistency as well as physical things. So like if you're you had a blanket at one person's house, but not at the other person's house, like good luck, can't get attached to physical shit.

Patricia (28:07)

yeah.

Exactly.

I'm extremely

minimalistic. Extremely. Like it makes people mad.

Laurel Kassor (28:20)

fucking bet that this

has a little something something to do with it. I won't say it's a whole kit in caboodle, but like Chiron is probably like, if it doesn't have a home, it can't stay here.

Patricia (28:24)

yeah.

It's not here. Yep. Exactly.

That's exactly it. It's gone. Bye.

Laurel Kassor (28:34)

to tack in just a little bit of that South Node stuff.

It likely would have been quite destabilizing as a child, like in that But now it becomes this byproduct of like you can just feel if something fits or doesn't fit or belongs or doesn't belong. And you can also intuitively feel what other people need, physically actually need like product or physical thing that might be able to help support them.

Patricia (28:43)

Course, extremely.

Exactly.

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (29:07)

In some way, which is Chiron being of service, being supportive, and being helpful, and in cancer care. Here is something to for your care, right? do you find that that happens in your sessions sometimes? Is like there's almost like like physical care steps that come through.

Patricia (29:26)

always, always. I always end up getting things like like I feel people's bodies a lot. So I'm I'm really good at telling people if they have ulcers or if they're about to get ulcers, like things like this. So that comes through all the time. All the time, where I'll be like, Hey, you only move emotions through physical movement. You need to move. So yeah.

Laurel Kassor (29:36)

I'm dying here, you're killing me, dude.

Mm.

I'm like losing my shit, dude. Because this is like in my brain space, the body, the physical body, has a lot to do with pillar two, which so does the second house. It has a lot to do with cancer, which is where this is happening. And Chiron is about fucking.

Patricia (29:50)

Can see it.

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Laurel Kassor (30:07)

fixing things. it is the diagnostic. It is the nurse. it is literally being like, I'm diagnosing and assessing that emotion needs to actually be circulating, which circulation is cancer thing, right? Hello. through the body, through that physical vessel. And vessel is very pillar four energy. So

Patricia (30:18)

Yep. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. I'm loving this so much.

Laurel Kassor (30:26)

I'm blown away. That's fucking crazy. And it's crazy to connect it with you being, you know, fing finger quotes a little bit, but like trained as a kid to be able to identify where things belong.

Patricia (30:36)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (30:43)

Mmm, that's crazy town. But now we can also scoot forward a little bit because literally less than a year later, there's Jupiter. There's Jupiter, our gr who does quite physically represent grandparents in astrology, which is so I was like, because you started it at the first set and then you like just flew right into Jupiter. I was like, look at it. It's happening, it's happening.

Patricia (30:56)

Yep.

I love this

so much.

Laurel Kassor (31:06)

I fucking love this so much because this brings us back to, and here is also a great example of how the chart cycles back on in on itself.

Jupiter comes back around, grandparents come back around, that time frame comes back around. This also looks like it would be the beginning of early childhood education. This usually coincides with when children are first off to elementary school or in those early learning phases. Sometimes this can have to do with siblings. if there were siblings involved, I could see how this might have to do with cousins in your case, if if there were direct siblings, but since you were moving a lot between houses and such, I could see how that could be part of it.

Patricia (31:40)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah

Laurel Kassor (31:47)

But obviously, named directly grandparents already. But this would have been when your Jupiter first activated and first said, Hey Patricia, I'm Jupiter. And I'm here to have a good fucking time. Cause you got Jupiter and Leo. But it also would have activated your Saturn, Moon.

Patricia (31:50)

Yeah.

That's amazing.

I love this so much.

Laurel Kassor (32:12)

as well because your Jupiter is exactly opposite your moon which is conjunct Saturn and it's a tight conjunction too so that would also be the point at which yes you get a front load of Jupiter goodness

Patricia (32:16)

Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

Laurel Kassor (32:27)

Which is expansion, growth, learning, being exposed to the wider world. I wouldn't be surprised if some of your first big memorable travels were in this time period and This is probably also like there was probably a lot of like validation that you had not been previously getting, that you were like, holy shit, I'm a fucking

Patricia (32:29)

Mm.

Mm-hmm. They sure were.

Laurel Kassor (32:50)

badass. like I'm just like I'm an entity. I'm an entity. You should like me. That's right. Like it could be we came out of our shell a little bit, even here. but it would have activated the opposition, so we would have also learned that, but we still need to be safe. We still need to be protected. So can you tell us a little bit more about what this this would be like five, six?

Patricia (32:51)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yep.

Laurel Kassor (33:12)

Kinda years old. Was there anything going on with your mom specifically too, cause the moon would be wrapped in?

Patricia (33:17)

So five, six would have been. See, I got my horse in a seven. So I would have been traveling around. This would have been the instability before a really breakthrough moment of where I finally found my anchor point outside of something. My st stabilizer has is horses, but we'll get into that in moment. Five-six would have been a lot of moving around still because this I know I did.

Kindergarten and part of first grade in Nevada, and then the rest of first grade and second grade in North Dakota. So I know there was some moving around there. There was some different pets as well that came into my life around that time and also left. I know a lot of them didn't work out. Like there was a lot of moving pieces starting to happen. And yeah. God, we probably moved like

Once a year during that period, maybe like twice. There were probably four moves in that time period. So yeah, there was a lot of a lot of stuff going on.

Laurel Kassor (34:07)

When did you get the horse?

Patricia (34:10)

Seven years old. Let's see. Yeah, I would have been

Maybe I was eight. Seven turning eight. I could have started lessons when I was seven and then it would have like happened at eight. But seven would have been seven, eight ish would have been that breakthrough of like, never mind, I've got this. I'm good.

Laurel Kassor (34:26)

You know what's so funny is that not not to make this about me, but it was like seven-eight that I found my childhood sport too. the one that stuck. You know what I'm saying? okay. the interesting thing about this part of your chart is, and I was already kind of suspecting that Ceres would have to do with the horse back riding a little bit, is that your Jupiter does activate your Ceres.

Patricia (34:29)

No, you're fine.

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (34:47)

So part of me almost wonders if this was almost the period where and centaurs, Jupiter, Sagittarius, right? Hello. So part of me wonders if this is when, and Jupiter has to do with learning and education, if this could have been a moment, you know, maybe when you were like six, when you were aware of horses. Like, I'm gonna learn about horses. or became interested in them, that

Patricia (34:47)

Okay.

Ha ha.

Mm.

yeah, there's a photo of it. Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (35:11)

Okay. Yeah, because this would have been like the learning a learning period and a period of

expansion when the world got bigger. And also think about like I think person I know that there's a lot of there could be a lot of debate about like who fucking rules horses and the large animals and whatever. I think it varies from chart to chart really. I think there are some basic archetypes here, but I think that like a fucking Jupiter about expansion and travel, hello, what the fuck the horse will take you very far, but in this case it was in the third house, so it is about this

Patricia (35:24)

Yeah, yeah.

Exactly.

Laurel Kassor (35:40)

Childhood educational time period, but it's about learning. So I almost wonder if like that six-ish point, point was when we learned about horses and we were like, I want horse. I want a horse. Let's horse. this is also when your Ceres would have gotten activated too. And Ceres makes things real.

Patricia (35:52)

Would be around that time, because from my understanding,

Laurel Kassor (36:03)

Ownership. Not every girl gets to have a horse, you know, Look at Tina Belcher.

Patricia (36:01)

And then suddenly the horse came.

No, usually you don't. Exactly

it. That's usually the case.

Laurel Kassor (36:14)

my gosh, it's a constant in this house. It is the number one comfort show. it's so interesting because that pulls in that Jupiter activation.

Patricia (36:12)

God, I wanna watch Faw's Burgers now.

It's so good. It really is.

Mm.

Laurel Kassor (36:23)

was

also the first time your awa your experience with Ceres would have become activated. Now your Jupiter is square Ceres out of the out of the gate. So maybe we wanted the horse but didn't get it right away. Right? Maybe that was kind of like, it's too expensive. We we cannot afford it. That's crazy of you to think that that we would want that. likely that period before where Jupiter got activated between you actually getting

Patricia (36:38)

Mm-hmm. Very much that. Yep. Yep.

Laurel Kassor (36:50)

to have a horse, is likely that square of like, can we learn how to

accept like can we learn how to embrace that we might not get this horse? Can we learn how to protect ourselves against rejection around this thing we really desire, which by the way our our Ceres is in Libra, so it pulls in desire and it pulls in attraction and it pulls in want, right? But there's this ownership quality around it, this

Patricia (37:03)

Yep.

Mm.

Laurel Kassor (37:20)

the stewardship energy around it. I think that that's really fucking cool the horse turns up around this period of time. also wanna just offer fourth before I move on because I want to hear about like how the horse changed your life. 'cause I do find that horses are also tied in with Pillar Nine, Jupiter, Sagittarius, Ninth House shit.

Patricia (37:26)

That is really cool.

Makes sense.

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (37:43)

And Pillar Twelve, which is Neptune and the Twelfth House, and like Pisces shit as well, which is also Oracle shit as well. So like I think that there is a connection between horses and psychicism

Patricia (37:57)

Yeah. I agree.

Laurel Kassor (37:59)

I wanted to say that there's something interesting about this Jupiter moment when you were young that taught you something about manifestation because that's something else I really hold for Ceres.

Patricia (38:08)

It's just in my brain,

like three minutes ago, where I was like, I manifested this horse and I didn't even realize it until right now.

So there we go.

Laurel Kassor (38:16)

I think that while all planets, all energies in the zodiac manifest,

I think that Ceres is the planetary force of what we would refer to as manifestation she is the densifying, she is the consolidating, she is the anchoring force that holds things to earth and makes them tangible and makes them real, right? So I think that planets in contact with Ceres.

Patricia (38:30)

That's so cool.

Mm.

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (38:48)

are co-opted into the manifestation process itself. Yeah. So that was just the last thing I wanted to tack on to that what I could see how that connects in. Because

Patricia (38:53)

Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, totally. I love this. So cool.

Laurel Kassor (39:04)

Everything that happens in our lives is symbolic for other things that are happening in our lives. So it's not just about wow, you manifest the horse. It's about what did that teach you that later then and Jupiter is a teacher that you went on to teach others? What wisdom was in being told no, you know, about this thing that you really wanted? What did you learn from that, right? Like in that gets integrated and co-opted inside of us.

and hurled forward into the future. But now I would love to hear just about what was that like discovering the horse and everything that that opened up for you and in you.

Patricia (39:36)

And that opened up a whole world. That opened up stability. It opened trust. It opened up consistency. I wasn't getting that. I was getting pieces of that. Like the characters were s consistently acting inconsistent So the only thing consistent was inconsistency. Or the only stability was the fact that I mean it wasn't extreme. You know, I was very blessed

You know, but trauma's relative when you talk, especially in adverse childhood effects. So that still counts. And the horse gave me that. It gave me just enough to be like, no, like, let me teach you how to trust, let me teach you how to listen. Let me teach you how to slow down. And horses are they have a a magnetic field that's huge, like 35 feet wide. And

It probably triggered like I think back to this often now. That was probably the moment where my nervous system started learning how to regulate and where I started learning how to regulate myself and be able to slow and think and be aware and process things. So it was a complete game changer to my whole world.

Laurel Kassor (40:41)

my gosh, I love that. You've

are speaking directly to Ceres in so many ways. In so, so many, many ways. you have Ceres in Libra, we mentioned she is retrograde in your chart and in your fifth house of hobbies, by the way, of decisions, of choices, of performance, especially if you ever were in competitions and did any performance with the horses. Yep, yep, yep. things that we pick, things that we enjoy, right? Like things that are fun. We choose.

Patricia (40:58)

Hmm. Lovely. Of course. Yep. Yeah.

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (41:11)

That's the fifth house, Ceres is there. We'll come back to her in a second. She is damn near exactly opposite your Mercury, retrograde, and Aries in your 11th house. So there were many words you just used. the Ceres side of it was like that was when I learned consistency. That is when I learned to slow down. Like, hello. I believe Ceres is the force of Taurus energy.

Patricia (41:13)

I love that so much.

Okay.

Laurel Kassor (41:36)

Hello. It's right there. Right. You also mentioned that with with w wig I well, I almost said Wig working with the horse, which you were working with the horse, but with being with the horse really.

Patricia (41:38)

That makes sense.

Cool.

Laurel Kassor (41:48)

Also taught you how to process your thoughts. Hello, that's what Mercury does. That's what Mercury does. So Ceres was like, you need to slow down and process because you already process differently. You already process two things differently, which is Ceres in retrograde and Mercury in retrograde. So you process worth, value, and consistency and sustainability differently.

Patricia (41:53)

Ha ha

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (42:14)

And information and communication and exchange and data is also processed through its own internal system as well. I like to think of retrograde planets not necessarily as debilitated at although like sometimes

Patricia (42:29)

I get it. Sometimes they really

do.

Laurel Kassor (42:31)

So sometimes I wonder.

but but more that they go through an alternative process of processing the theme, of processing the experience. So it's almost like Mercury retrograde natives have to self-filter.

Patricia (42:39)

Mm, mm.

That makes sense.

Laurel Kassor (42:47)

before the filtering of other information. It's almost like they have to they interpret it for themselves and then have to reinterpret it to communicate it out again. and it's the same thing for like consistency and sustainability too. So it's really interesting that the horses were a huge part of anchoring it's okay to slow down. I think that

Patricia (42:51)

One thousand percent. Yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

That makes sense, okay.

So cool.

Laurel Kassor (43:15)

The pillar two energy, which is like where Ceres comes from, and also where your Chiron and your South Node are located in the second house, right?

Patricia (43:18)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

exactly.

Laurel Kassor (43:25)

with the horses, it gave you that ability to slow down, to give yourself some time and space to think, to balance out your thoughts, because that opposition between them is saying either we're all up in our head because we have to move forward, or we're maybe pausing because other people need us to pause. And there's like the the Libra bits of it. And I also want to offer because I can on like I'm just a fucking fire hose on this podcast, I swear to God.

Patricia (43:44)

Yeah.

I'm loving it. I'm loving it.

Laurel Kassor (43:53)

But I also want to offer that like Ceres in Libra co-regulating. Right? Like you you and the horse co-regulating together. I do believe Ceres has a lot to do with regulation. the cycles.

Patricia (44:01)

Yep, exactly.

It makes sense. That's exactly what that

is. Was regulation. That whole thing was regulation. Still is.

Laurel Kassor (44:14)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. And so inevitably that would have it superimposed forward into other patterns, too. And because, and this is a huge thing, I mean the whole thing's a huge thing, right? But like Mercury is your chart ruler. You are a Gemini rising. So your Mercury retrograde Aries in the 11th house.

Patricia (44:27)

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Laurel Kassor (44:36)

Is really the guiding force of the entire chart, of the entire lived life experience. And so learning how to anchor and slow down, allow yourself to process and develop perspective because your Mercury in the 11th and your sun's in the 11th, too, is about perspective.

Patricia (44:39)

That's so cool.

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (44:57)

And of course this ties back to Mars, who we started this whole fucking thing with, because they're good taking their notes from that Mars, who's also about protection. Like that is an active warrior holding a shield. Like that is a shield maiden. If ever there were one,

Patricia (44:57)

Okay. Yeah, always.

Okay, nope.

It makes sense. I like this a lot. This is so freaking cool. It's awesome. Astrology's awesome.

Laurel Kassor (45:21)

aren't you

a martial arts expert?

Patricia (45:24)

I am. Yeah.

Yeah, I've been in martial arts since I was thirteen.

Laurel Kassor (45:26)

Yeah.

Since we were 13. Remember earlier when I was like, Saturn is in a position with Mars where it really wants you to figure out how to master survival.

Patricia (45:39)

Well figured it out. Yeah. Yeah, extreme structure.

Laurel Kassor (45:42)

Boom. And with structure, right?

Which is so fucking cool. So that is really interesting too. And there was and I was surprised you hadn't brought it up yet. I was like, my gosh, you are a martial arts expert.

Patricia (45:53)

I was waiting for you to get to

this point, but I was like, She's not gotten to thirteen yet. I'll go we'll get to thirteen.

Laurel Kassor (45:59)

We're kind of like past

thirteen now. You've naturally taken us past thirteen. The moment where your Ceres was activated. Cause it it's there are no planets between basically like six and eighteen.

Patricia (46:03)

Awesome.

Mm.

Wow. That's wild. No, no, but it's more like filtering.

Laurel Kassor (46:14)

That doesn't mean you didn't have experiences, you did. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Patricia (46:21)

That's so cool. And like there's additions in it's the thing it's the same thing. It's the same theme of protection. It's the same theme of stability. Like in both things and trying to like process because martial arts came in at thirteen and I mean

my god, the whole time's a blur. So like I mean, that was chaos. Martial arts saved my life. I probably would be in jail or dead if it wasn't for martial arts. So like it that was such a game changer to have. And that's been the basis of even everything I do now, because it included meditation, visualization, listening to your internal world. I was very blessed to have extremely old school traditional teachers and practitioners. So yeah, it makes sense. It makes so much sense.

And yet there's still the competition side. I competed for many, many years, even internationally. So, like there's that look at me, that Jupiter, that competition, that it awesome.

Laurel Kassor (47:06)

And it's the sun again. You're pulling back to the sun as well And Aries, one million percent. especially since it sounds like it's real okay, how do I want to say this? Like it's really interesting because the horses got you up to the edge of the psychocism. Martial arts got you up to the edge of psychicism.

Patricia (47:09)

Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (47:26)

Right, they

were different forms of meditation, both of them. It's almost like horse riding would have been movement meditation. and so would have martial arts, literally the same thing, right? Just slight again, different fonts, which is just fucking crazy. this is why I fucking wanted to do this podcast because like

Patricia (47:28)

Mm-hmm. Fully.

Yeah.

She response, yep.

Is it?

Laurel Kassor (47:42)

Martial arts is finger quote, low-hanging fruit for Aries energy, for Mars energy, for first house energy, for conjunctions too. The conjunction is the essence of pillar one impact, right? And so I love that we can show that, yeah, you did the martial arts and yeah, you did it all the fucking way. And horses are movement too.

Patricia (47:45)

Yeah. Yep.

Laurel Kassor (48:03)

movement. So it's showing multiple fractals on the same exact fucking frequency, which is just totally mind-blowing. But it's interesting because your sun is in Aries. We know this. We've already touched on how your sun receiving its insights from Mars, who's giving it the memos.

Patricia (48:10)

This is amazing.

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (48:25)

we're gonna maybe start jumping around a little bit now. Okay

Patricia (48:27)

Mm-hmm. Well, you're getting into a really interesting time, so I have a feeling you're gonna

start grabbing cool things. So hit me with what you got.

Laurel Kassor (48:35)

I do think that I might be grabbing something cool. There are two things I definitely want to pull and poke at a little bit. The one that wants to come through right now is your Sun in Aries in the 11th in a two-degree square With Neptune. Because Neptune, and this is what I was saying, I was like, we got up to the edge of like some of the mystic stuff.

Patricia (48:51)

Freaking tight. Okay.

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (49:01)

but we haven't gone full into it yet. The sun is the planet that has to do with creation, decision making, validation, what we shine our light upon. AKA like where do we fucking focus this awareness that we have the gift of, right? And and what do we choose to create with it based on where we're paying the fuck attention. Right? So that's our that's our sun. It's our identity, blah blah blah.

Patricia (49:04)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Exactly.

Laurel Kassor (49:25)

Neptune. I love Neptune. Neptune is the planet of Pillar 12. Pillar 12 is the integration pillar. It is the final pillar. It is the last one. It is associated with the 12th house naturally. Pisces as a sign, Neptune obviously, and the waning semi-sextile.

Patricia (49:28)

So curious.

Laurel Kassor (49:46)

aspect so the closing 30 degrees there they all source from this integration energy that has a lot to do with dissolving boundlessness alternative

Awareness, other dimensions, spirit, loss, grief, transcendence, unification, empathy, compassion, hello, channeling, imagination.

Patricia (50:09)

This makes a lot of sense.

Very much there.

Laurel Kassor (50:13)

Our Sun is in an opening square. The tension is that of rejection. we would be, especially in our younger years, more oriented to say, get away from me. Stuff I can't see. You aren't real. stuff feels threatening because this square has a guess what? Pillar four, cancer.

Patricia (50:17)

Mm.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (50:35)

Fourth house, moon, undertone to it. So it is also about trying to protect what we care about. Like that's the whole essence. I keep bringing up protection. Cause people, I think, honestly, sleep on just how defensive that pillar is, because that's how we keep the shit we love safe. Like

Patricia (50:38)

Course.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. So that's where it's gonna flare

up.

Laurel Kassor (50:55)

so when the sun is square, a planet like Neptune, it can create a lot of fucking otherworldly events and experiences and internal experiences and fogginess and blurriness.

That that the native, the sun haver, would be like, I would rather not look at that. I would rather not focus. I choose to reject this thing so I can keep moving forward. At least that's like the Sun and Aries version of it. So

Patricia (51:20)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (51:25)

You would maybe be this stuff is coming like much later. You don't you haven't met your Sun yet directly. It's in the 11th house. That is like older, closer to retirement ages but

Patricia (51:32)

joy. Well when does that happen?

Yeah,

yeah, it's not totally there yet.

Laurel Kassor (51:41)

this would look like maybe a what could be a little while before we accept this. This also can symbolize a father not being there, as for a young version of Patricia consciousness there is invisible Neptune father Sun, right? But it also means that invisible structures, Neptune and Capricorn, challenge your own identity.

Patricia (51:49)

Yep. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

So cool. This is so cool. This is

so freaking cool.

Laurel Kassor (52:07)

I would

love to hear about what maybe some of these early experiences with mysticism were for you, with spirit were for you. you haven't really mentioned what religion was like for you growing up, what were our belief systems like? You I mean you mentioned the grandparent parts of Jupiter, and I brought it straight to horses, but I would just love to hear like what was your relationship with spirit growing up and as you were getting older? Because I feel like we're we're kind of into the teenage years now. This will probably naturally pull in your Pluto by default

Patricia (52:32)

Yeah, yeah.

Laurel Kassor (52:35)

default, which Let me give you maybe like 22 or 3 as an age. Okay. That's the point. I was like, okay, that's when Pluto comes online. And Pluto is connected to Neptune. So that would likely be a point.

Patricia (52:41)

you're gonna wanna stick with twenty two.

Mm-hmm. Okay, so I'm gonna lead

you up to this too. so as far as like spirituality and stuff and how I grew up, I mean it was extremely loose. Like we there was not necessarily an overt religion. I remember like one of my great grandmas who I am not was not close with, but she was

Russian German, very Catholic. So we would go occasionally. Like I've been baptized in the name of like respect for her. it was extremely rare when we would go. my other great grandma who I spent a lot of time around and like her son and everything, it wasn't

Really, there was not really a focus on this. I guess maybe if they had, but they it's hard for even them to answer because you deal with immigration, you deal with like what's actually been lost, what's actually there. Regardless, I did not have a large religious lens on my life at all as a kid. There wasn't necessarily an Abrahamic religious overtone. and I'm very grateful for that because it kept me very open. And instead, there was a large emphasis on nature.

Large emphasis on just

All the women in my family seem to have this to a degree. so you know, they talk about it. There's been talk of dreams and things coming on. I can remember it was just something you'd hear. It wasn't abnormal. It was like, cool. they haven't laid it into it as hard as I have, obviously, but like it it was there and it kept me open.

However, I did also go through like a long period of time where I I think I experienced a lot of loss, a lot of instability back to back in my teenage, later teenage years, where I I think I would have identified as an atheist all the way up until roughly, I think I was 20, turning 21, somewhere in there. And my I was living in Egypt at the time again, and my appendix exploded on me.

So I had yeah.

Laurel Kassor (54:37)

shit, dude. That's the Pluto. That's

the that's what I'm looking at, man. Your Pluto's in the sixth house of what can be health, what can be experiences.

Patricia (54:41)

That's what you're seeing. Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (54:47)

I sorry, I didn't mean to cut in, but also, dude, I wasn't really again birthday twin moment. Like I wasn't raised with any kind of Abrahamic religious structure, even though my mother is Jewish and my father is Christian. We never went to church, we never went to temple. So I was open to explore. By the time I was in my late teenage years, I was like, I'm an atheist, but because I didn't know the word agnostic yet, like I didn't know that was an option yet. And then I found like astrology.

Patricia (54:47)

Yeah. It exploded on me. It was great. No, no, you're good. You're good.

Yep.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Laurel Kassor (55:12)

And I was like, whoa, universe, bruh. So anyway, I didn't mean to make make that about me and just like, whoa, more same, same. That's so cool.

Patricia (55:16)

Exactly. no, you're totally fine. I love hearing this. It's my favorite thing

to hear it echoed back and cause it's just it just backs astrology. Not that I needed any backing to it at this point, but it just continues to be like, yes, obviously, yes, obviously. It's so good. So yeah, I mean that's my appendix, I'm pretty sure I was 21 and that shit exploded on me in Egypt. it was tons of fun.

Laurel Kassor (55:36)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Patricia (55:43)

A total near-death experience situation. I was in the hospital for a while. and that is the moment where I it was that near-death experience. It was that because I remember leaving my body. I remember everything. And I came back. I like to tell people, like, I came back with all of the answers and none of the questions. So, like, you got to prompt me. You got to ask me the question. And then I'm like, yeah, it's this. And people are like, how'd you know? I'm like, I honestly don't know. It's just there.

Laurel Kassor (56:05)

Don't know. Shut the fuck up, dude. This

is so crazy. we're just being mirrors for each other. This is I know this is not like our usual, this is not how the episodes like usually go with me being like, my god, I'm having revelations

Patricia (56:11)

So it got more solidified in twenty two.

That's exactly it.

I didn't expect it to because that's

I mean me too. I'm like my hand is full of notes because I'm like I need to remember things that she's saying and write things down. Also bad I can listen back to it.

Laurel Kassor (56:31)

Well, thank God this is a podcast episode, so you'll be able to come back to it.

my gosh, but that's so crazy. A few things popped up for me. One, have you seen the OA? Is it your favorite show too?

Patricia (56:44)

Have not.

But now I need to. I know, people told me. People told me. I know.

Laurel Kassor (56:46)

Okay, well it's about to be your favorite

show too. It's about near-death experiences. I won't say a damn thing more. It it's on Netflix. it is the most beautiful piece of media I've ever seen. I fucking it's incredible everything that Britt Marling and Zal Batmanlage have done. You should watch.

Patricia (56:50)

Ooh, I'll go check it out.

Definitely gonna watch it now.

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (57:05)

also, my Pluto is my first planet where your Mars is, my Pluto is. And I had surgery, and I can only imagine to an infant it feeling like a near-death experience

Patricia (57:14)

Mm-hmm.

For sure.

Laurel Kassor (57:18)

So it's just really interesting because that made me be like, my god, is that where I maybe I actually did have some sort of near death? maybe there was something that happened that made me feel some sort of way that or perceive things like that, you know?

Patricia (57:22)

Exactly.

Well, I mean, there's been numerous reports

of people going under anesthesia. And regardless whether they're near death or not, I mean, it could be a routine surgery where everything goes goes correct, but there's reports of people going under anesthesia and experiencing things still and still reporting out of body experiences and being able to tell the doctors what they were talking about during surgery. So, like this happens. There's a level at which and here's my theory behind it is that okay, we have these ideas and understandings of like yogic sleep.

where you can leave your body, you know, where you're it's astral travel, but you have to get to this level of extreme physical stillness. And that extreme physical stillness, often you know, sought through meditation or deep prayer, you accidentally get dropped into that when you go under anesthesia because you're extremely still. So I wonder how many people leave accidentally.

Because suddenly now the constraints are gone.

Laurel Kassor (58:25)

I really think that

like

I'm having like a full body reaction as you're talking about that because I was obviously like way too young to know anything and remember anything, but like my body is going nuts right now. yeah, my intuitive voice is like they gave us too much anesthesia. cause I was a baby. they didn't even do the operation for several months, which is when my parents had to like hold me.

Patricia (58:38)

Body remembers.

Thing.

Laurel Kassor (58:51)

down and ice my eyeball and it was traumatizing. it was a plutonian moment, you know, but then there was the surgery along with it. And my mom said I looked dead on the table like sh later. And so I'm like, my God, maybe I fucking like was for a minute or

Patricia (58:54)

like buying my own.

Laurel Kassor (59:07)

The the effects of it because that would be Pluto. And I'm saying this to not just to me, but to you as well, because our charts might be falling in different places, but our aspects are the same. Like almost all of our aspects are the same, except when it comes to where the angles fall. And so, like, when Pluto hit your sun, which represents the life force, right? Like, wow.

Pluto is in a quincunx to your Sun. Pluto is in a quincunx to my Sun. So it would have been like death and life force meeting up together. And because our suns are square, our Neptune, Uranus, by the way, I didn't mention Uranus earlier, but Uranus is conjunct our Neptune. So therefore also we're squ in the connection to our sun.

Patricia (59:42)

Yeah.

It's all connected. That's so freaking cool.

Laurel Kassor (59:57)

That all the outer planets touched our sun, which I have a very proven fucking theory at this point, that like individuals who have luminaries touched by outer planets did get a little a little extra sprinkle of the stardust, if you know what I'm saying. And so, like, the fact that our sun is being directly linked and directly touched by all three of the outer planets,

Patricia (1:00:09)

Mm.

Yeah.

Of course it is.

Laurel Kassor (1:00:24)

the fact that like this near death experience, which like, it's this is so fucking cool because I wouldn't have put together for myself that it was a near-death experience potentially.

Patricia (1:00:33)

Exactly.

Laurel Kassor (1:00:34)

This hits every marker. It hits the drug marker with Neptune, which does have to do with anesthesia, which does have to do with altered states. and then of course Uranus, unexpected shock, d a rupture. you said it was was it a rupture for you?

Patricia (1:00:47)

So

it was a slow leak for five days that my twenty, twenty-one year old self was like, it's food poisoning. I'll treat it with tequila and partying. So I did. So I waited five whole days and then finally, like, by the time I got in, I mean, I was leaking. It ran a bad reaction to the anaest like a horrible reaction to the anesthesia. It ruptured like in the middle of all of this. It was chaos.

Laurel Kassor (1:00:57)

Lordy, Lordy

Bro, you named ev

you named words from each of the outer planets.

Patricia (1:01:14)

Yep. Yep. Not surprised. No, it's perfect.

Laurel Kassor (1:01:20)

Holy shit.

This is exactly why I wanted to do this podcast, man. that's so crazy. I'm like so blown away. I'm like, whoa. Okay, so that was really significant. Obviously we can't shut up about it. But I would love to hear a little bit about how did you process that post event? Because that having a near-death experience having such a a

Patricia (1:01:24)

I knew it, I knew it was gonna be good.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:01:44)

Crisis. I mean, it's a crisis. The Pluto f is a crisis. That is usually where our Pluto is in our chart, is where we had a very deep crisis of some sort. And so where where do you go from there? Because this is also kind of like how you started to accept parts of yourself, right? Okay.

Patricia (1:01:45)

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah, a thousand

percent. I mean, this is where everything got activated. Cause I mean, it was from the moment where I woke up and so when they pulled me out of surgery, I I had a bad reaction to the everything basically everything went wrong. Anyways, I woke up I was like screaming bloody murder for like hours after it was I remembered almost nothing. But people around of that part anyways, people around me talked about it. And I was always like, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. And then my one friend, I'll never forget it. She waited until everybody left the room and was like

That was something else, wasn't it? Like that was spiritual. Like you had something else. And I was like, Yeah, but I don't she's like, it's okay. She's like, you'll process it when you're ready. But I just had to make sure. She's like, I saw it in your eyes. I was like, Okay, that was. And then it was martial arts, circling back to martial arts, circling back to horses. They gave me that stability and the processing. I already had the cup to be able to hold everything. And I mean, I'm sure that's not by chance. I by that point I was

very well understanding of visualization, meditation, grounding techniques, extremely active, had access to horses. And I mean I was living in Egypt in this, I think would be the beginning of 2012, which puts you right in the middle between two revolutions. So there's a plenty of distractions also. So I think it was a mix between me leaning into everything and also being very well distracted to where it was almost like okay so when people are starting to deal with their

gifts coming in or trying to become more intuitive, clair, sentient in any form, clairvoyant, clair, add in everything. The clairs. If anyone's trying to get into that more, what I tell them is you need to keep the logical part of your brain busy. So you have to distract this part so this part can open up. So I was able to have that distraction with like, okay, the political instability,

Laurel Kassor (1:03:32)

The Claire's

Patricia (1:03:47)

I'm an expat here navigating the political instability. I'm still learning the language. I'm still, you know, there's all these moving parts that are very, very logical. And I think that allowed me while I still was training, I still was keeping up on all the meditation and everything. So I think that allowed me the ability to process things and filter in things and not lose my ever-loving mind. So

Laurel Kassor (1:04:08)

Mmm

my gosh, wow.

Where do I even begin? Like the revolutions. Hello. Again, we're back to the Mars. Like again, we're back to the Mars, but again, we're back to this instability. I cannot express enough how our astrology scales with us, right? The your first introduction to the sudden upheaval of structured instability when it came to home and care came when your mom lost her friend and you lost.

Patricia (1:04:13)

Ha ha ha.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:04:39)

Caretaker in that process. The government is Big Mama, okay? Like the government is Big Mama. It's supposed to be, in my opinion. I do have cancer in my knife, also, so of course I would fix that. but

Patricia (1:04:44)

Exactly.

Yep. It should.

Things would be better.

Laurel Kassor (1:04:57)

Think this could definitely be better. what's interesting is that the government is actually represented by Saturn in a lot of a lot of things. It's the structure, it is the director, it is that which governs. You and I both have Saturn conjunct our moon. So to us, structure and care need to be entwined. They are they they are already inseparable in some way, shape, or form to us. The

Patricia (1:05:09)

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, they are. Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:05:19)

quincunxes that those are making to your Mars for survival in the in Cancer, the homeland. Like there is no sign energy more patriotic than Cancer is. I don't care what country you're in. Cancer energy protects the homeland.

Patricia (1:05:32)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:05:36)

Okay. And so what we see on at scale playing out in just that little I know this is not actually about like your psychic part of the story, but like this is just such a fucking interesting feature here is that you experience this lack of structure suddenly when you were young, right? And then

Patricia (1:05:44)

You're fine. No, no, it's it's it's really dope.

Laurel Kassor (1:05:55)

it happened at a larger scale with the government. So like this is how collective astrology impacts an individual. It it shows up in their chart in some way already, right? Where they're gonna fit into kind of like a

Patricia (1:06:05)

So cool.

Laurel Kassor (1:06:08)

the world around them will align in some shape to the frequency within the chart. Now, does that mean you were finger quotes like doomed to have two political revolutions under your belt? No, not necessarily, but it does fit the bill, if you will, for things that could be consistent with s this sort of frequency. So I think that that alone is just really interesting as a plot point pull out. But also

Patricia (1:06:25)

Yeah.

Yes?

Laurel Kassor (1:06:38)

the

the way that this and the logical bit I wanted to pull that out too because I feel the same way. I think this is undoubtedly s a still talking about the Saturn Moon conjunction in Aquarius. mine is not in the ninth house. Yours in the ninth house so it is attached to

Patricia (1:06:45)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:06:58)

belief and interpretation and the ability to make large scale sense out of things to be able to see principles, ethics, morals, judgments Expansion, right? So it's like we need structure as we're expanding into our intuition. and then the logical bit and it's opposite Jupiter as we had mentioned. So there is yet another bit of interpretation.

Patricia (1:06:59)

Yeah

Makes sense.

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:07:22)

energy

being hoisted in, especially from the data. But what I really want to emphasize here is the the need for a logical structure to finger quotes distract in a sense. I do the same same different with astrology. I'm an Oracle too. I channel too. but the birth chart is a system.

Patricia (1:07:25)

Mm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. Exactly. You are. Yep.

Laurel Kassor (1:07:42)

Astrology is a system. It has a flow, it has a rhythm, it has steps, it has hierarchy, it has something to s settle into, in a sense, for me, and then the channeling comes through the frequency of the logic, if that makes sense. And I'm wondering, is that similar for you?

Patricia (1:07:50)

Yep

Yep. Makes total sense. Well,

it's exactly how I do my readings. I utilize cards as a directional point. I I see them like a compass. And that's what allows me to tap in. But then it's very rare that I just read the traditional. I don't actually. I never read just the traditional card. It's like, okay, here's this, but here's what I'm getting. So like it's just the it's just the touch point to figure out what it is. It's just my compass.

But it works great. It's that system. Like you said, there has to be some system to a degree. It also helps other people understand and gives them something to process and latch onto, especially if they can see. you know, with written, with astrology, there's a lot of written. That's the chart, you can see it, it's tangible. And with divination, too, it really helps people. Cause I can do this. I don't need the cards. I don't need the other things. But when I take them away,

It's just that brain can it's a neurology. People need something to connect with to make it to make that experience feel real and also for them to interact with it. Like it has to be tangible. So that's what happens.

Laurel Kassor (1:08:52)

Real? Yeah. I mean that's the right word.

And that's Ceres.

Girl, like that is that back to Ceres opposite your Mercury as you're talking about like processing the messaging, right? it's anchored. It wants to anchor to something visible for show, for display. There's the fifth house of performance, it's like, let me put on a I don't need my cards, but we'll put on a show with them. they are touch points, I say the same thing. I'm like, I mean, I could do this without a chart, but like I don't want to. I it would be harder for me, i I would say.

Patricia (1:08:59)

Yep.

Mm, mm.

Yep. Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:09:25)

Second

guess, so much more, not because I don't trust myself, but because it's an anchor point. It is a my version of a crystal ball, you know, like yes, a hundred percent. And so I think it's like deeply attached to that. And because our experiences with Neptune are so

Patricia (1:09:27)

Yeah, yeah.

Exactly.

Laurel Kassor (1:09:44)

Subtly integrated in Neptune again is the channel. So when Neptune touches the sun, it's like, what are you gonna create? You gotta create some kind of systematic way of interpreting symbols. You have to be able to go in deep to create this pioneering new way, new format, because that's what Aries fucking do, whether we mean to or not.

Patricia (1:09:53)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, exactly.

Laurel Kassor (1:10:08)

It's kinda fucking annoying. Do you ever get annoyed with yourself

Patricia (1:10:08)

Always happens. It really is. I do.

Can't ever,

never. It's never gonna happen.

Laurel Kassor (1:10:14)

so it's really cool because your Sun is in the 11th house. So one of the many things I think, in addition, in addition to the system, your unique way of using the tarot, when I use cards, it's fucking a shocker. It's the same way. I'm like, I know what this means, but here's what it's saying.

Patricia (1:10:23)

Mm.

Exactly.

Exactly.

That what means versus what's saying. That hundred percent.

Laurel Kassor (1:10:38)

One of the big things I really love, and this will kind of be where we kind of start to land the plane a little bit, I think, but with your Sun

In the 11th house, that is a space that has a lot to do with community and groups and organizations and shared common causes and goals. I think of this a lot of it as a social sphere part of the chart where, yeah, it speaks to like your group of friends, but it also speaks to like your demographics to an extent, too, because nothing ever exists in isolation. I feel like the 11th house is keenly aware that things don't exist in isolation. It's a very interdisciplinary space. And so what we see is your Sun.

Is there in Aries saying, like, hey, bitch, I'm a pioneer. It's like, like, I'm about to create something new here when it comes to inventing, when it comes to perception, when it comes to perspective, when it comes to insights, and is going to be attached to Pluto. So there's gonna be some transformative, cathartic, healing, alchemical.

Patricia (1:11:22)

Yep.

Laurel Kassor (1:11:37)

bits associated with it. There's a lot of per I know we didn't really mention it, but I'm sure there's been oodles and oodles of of self-reinvention over the years. But so it would be connected to figuring out how do we survive, how do we make choices that help us survive in a world that we're having to kind of constantly adjust and and a tweak for.

Patricia (1:11:46)

yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:11:59)

And it pulls in, okay, we're also gonna have to create something maybe community-like where people feel safe and accepted and like they belong here, even though they might have wounds around mysticism, around magic, around spirit, around intuition, around these things, grief even.

Patricia (1:12:04)

Mm-hmm.

Exactly.

Laurel Kassor (1:12:21)

I'm curious, have you been part of anything like that? Have you created anything like that? Is that part of like the vision of the future that we're seeing? I bet I will. I already have. I'm basically dead right now.

Patricia (1:12:29)

You're gonna die laughing right now. Okay, so

I am I am indigenous. on my dad's side, I'm indigenous. And I originally we it's a whole bunch of drama. Long story short, we didn't know who my dad was. We thought we knew, turns out we didn't.

Laurel Kassor (1:12:47)

What a sun square Neptune

has a confusing relationship with their father? who would have seen it coming?

Patricia (1:12:52)

Exactly.

So like it was, you know, no fault to anybody. It is what it is. But like because of that, I went Lakota for a while and I thought my dad was Lakota. It turned out he's this is through a vision actually that I had not that long ago, prompted me to take a DNA test. It turns out he's nahu, na na nahu, na how. Aztec descendants, I'm still trying to connect and I'm still getting into that and Meshika obviously.

and I was able to find like the family line and everything. And it's just this whole really cool thing. So my personal indigeneity story at this point in my life is wild and complex, and that's a whole other topic. But with that, I am the previous founder of a nonprofit that utilized women's self-defense to as a tool of healing, re-empowering, reawakening women, indigenous women across the US and Canada. I did that for like seven to eight years.

I then ran a Indigenous youth outreach program in Seattle where I was the director for that program for three years. there you go. So

Laurel Kassor (1:13:47)

my shit over here. It's

fucking crazy. I'm like gonna cry that's so on the nose

Patricia (1:13:53)

You nailed it, you

nailed it. And what I'd like to do, you know, so community is very important to me. My spirituality is very important to me, but all of that is more personal. That's my indigeneity, my own spirituality. That's for me. That's my journey. I don't ever want to bring that into the public. What I do want to do into the public rather is community around helping people create their own community, just giving them that awareness.

I have my community. I'm I'm set. I don't I don't want to bring people in to create community. I might have like an online space eventually, but a large portion of what I do is helping people navigate things. Divination is so less, so much less about telling you what your future is and how to meet it, how to navigate it. So that's what my focus is. And I often find myself being like, hey, let's pour into the people around us, or hey, let's look at your goals for what kind of life you want to have. Now let's look at your community.

Do they actually match? Yes or no? And you're gonna have to restructure your life depending upon what you want, because your community creates you and you create your community. So if that's not recognized, you are really gonna you're just gonna cycle patterns again and again and again. And I did for many years. I made the mistakes. I cycled through gazillion patterns. I know I will again. but yeah, I I view it more as helping people build their own community or understanding how to move in that themselves.

rather than holding that. I've held that a lot and it it led to a lot of martyrdom, I think, a lot of martyrdom situations. It was killing me, you know. you know, teaching women self-defense in any form puts you face to face with women who've experienced trauma and myself as well. But it's not just that where I realized there was that martyrdom aspect of myself. It's protecting people, but I'm willing to shave off pieces of myself for it.

Laurel Kassor (1:15:19)

Mm.

Patricia (1:15:37)

And I can't do that anymore. That's why I pulled back all the way to my Oracle work because this doesn't require me to give away pieces of myself. It requires me to become more me. It's way easier for me to shave off pieces of myself and teach self-defense or pour my heart and soul into teaching people how to ride horses or all of these things require a great level of sacrifice. Even teaching martial arts, that requires a level of sacrifice. And

I have these large skill sets in these areas, even yoga teacher on me, certified yoga instructor. I don't use it because it requires me to shave off pieces of me. So this doesn't. This is the only thing that I'm like, this makes me expand. This makes me expand. And I need that for me. And that's also what I want to live in and what I want to put forward. So I don't know where I was going with that, but I hope he makes that to it.

Laurel Kassor (1:16:26)

Girl, I was sat. That was so good and juicy. my gosh. Yes, no, I totally hear what you're saying. And we haven't really mentioned it yet. She's just been kinda lurking in the twelfth house. But you do have Venus in your twelfth house.

So relationships requiring sacrifice is what I was hearing, kind of coming through some of that part or some of that story. It's not obviously where it ends or begins but I think that's a big part of it. you said martyrdom and my body reacted there's a lot I can identify with of giving of yourself and sacrificing yourself and pieces of yourself, which is like shaving off pieces. I love that you were using that phrasing. It's very like

Patricia (1:16:42)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:17:02)

Mars coded. It's like really Mars coded, and even just like the that your Mercury is an Aries too, and section sectioning things, compartmentalizing different pieces. So it's really interesting to hear you even just briefly kind of take us through some of the the collapsed version of that part of your journey where you were able to, through trial and error, through actively engaging in

Patricia (1:17:03)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:17:28)

The things that were giving you life and seeing like which ways are they comfortable to expand in that you were able to kind of work backwards, right? Almost from the physical things into the spiritual sectors I just think that's really, really beautiful because it shows how you've been able to take

All of these different experiences, so many we didn't even get to. Like, we didn't even talk about how you've survived a tsunami as well. Like what? Right? Like, two revolutions: a tsunami, self-defense master, horseback rider, oracle. Like, hello again. I'm like, what the fuck is this? It's incredible. but but I do want to point out that, like, that Sun Square Neptune, tsunami, hello, big waves, big ocean, Neptune.

Patricia (1:17:50)

Yeah yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:18:13)

Is very much associated with big wave sweeping shit away. So that's again another Sun Square Neptune thing. What's really funny is I have another guest on her opening planet, was her Sun Square Neptune. And you know what her story was? Swept away by a wave.

Patricia (1:18:26)

This is amazing. I love it.

Of course, of course she was to. No other option.

Laurel Kassor (1:18:33)

Of course, of course. That's Veronica's episode. Go listen.

really interesting to see how like that has very tangibly shown up for you.

Patricia (1:18:40)

Yeah. There's a lot of things

like that. Like you keep as far as Mars, you keep referencing Mars. And I just remember my astro cartography map. Mars goes right through Cairo. And I just keep coming back here.

Laurel Kassor (1:18:52)

Yeah.

Well,

and it's such a critical planet in your chart because it is, although not your chart ruler, it has a lot of sway over your sun and over your Mercury, and it's directly connected to Saturn, the moon. it is in a sextile to Mercury. it's in a trine to Ceres, which is like if you move consistently, things happen, things ground, right? Like that is also been probably one of the lessons, I'm sure, over time. it's show it's poked its head up through

Patricia (1:19:14)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:19:22)

your story at various points. It's also in a semisextile to Jupiter. So there's also a little bit of psychicism it's not always Neptune stuff. It's not always Pisces stuff. Sometimes there are the waning semi-sextiles that people overlook because who's paying attention to these little 30-degree aspects? But you do have Mars in a closing semi-sextile to your Jupiter.

Patricia (1:19:42)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:19:46)

which brings in another element of channel of psychic of loss of sacrifice of grief between the element of moving forward, fighting survival, and expansion, growth, opportunity, right? But also it brings a integration of those energies as well once we work through the patterns at various levels. So it's just super cool to see how there have been

Patricia (1:19:57)

Yeah.

So cool.

Laurel Kassor (1:20:12)

even if you didn't grow up being like, I see dead people, Which I mean you do see dead people, But even if like growing up you're

Patricia (1:20:16)

Exactly. Now, but not growing up.

Laurel Kassor (1:20:24)

Where did spirit come from? Like, why are you spiritual? You didn't grow up with any of that. There are little pieces in our chart that can show us where there were a need to dissolve something between certain elements. So that's really, really fucking cool to see how it's showing up in various ways. And things really do circle back to the same energies again and again, but in so many different formats across time. And humans, apparently, as we're seeing today.

Patricia (1:20:34)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Majorly. Yeah.

And that

as well, yes.

this is amazing.

Laurel Kassor (1:20:54)

This is so much fun. Thank you so much, Patricia, for taking the time to be here. Obviously, before you go, the people want to know, how do we work with you?

Patricia (1:20:59)

Thank you. This has been great. Of course.

So right now you can book via my website, psoracle.com. At the moment, I am at a month out with turnaround time for readings, but that that will shift back. I'm probably gonna I have to shift things. Things are changing. I had a post takeoff, and there's been this a beautiful wave of abundance in my life, and things have to be shifted. In order, I do all my readings, pay what you want or what you can. So I'm gonna keep that structure, but

More than likely I'm gonna switch to something of like releasing a set amount of readings every week. We'll see, we'll see how I handle that. But basically, whenever this comes out, just head to my website. Who knows? I doubt turnaround's gonna be a month when this comes out. It'd probably be more like week by week. I'm trying to move into my new apartment. So like I'm it's all this abundance coming at once. movement, movement, so much movement. I mean, I moved here, I moved here. It's so much movement.

Laurel Kassor (1:21:51)

And

Patricia (1:21:56)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:21:57)

I also did want to kinda share earlier when you were saying that you've pulled back as you were shaving off pieces of yourself into the oracle work only. This, what you just described and you just shared with us.

is an example of the next level of what that pattern of shaving pieces of yourself off becomes as you operate at this level, at this various pattern. I think, and this isn't just for you. This is just for like all a statement for all of us, right? it is a it's not about getting it right and perfect. It's about reshaping the way we experience the pattern each and every time. for this to be the new good problem to have

Patricia (1:22:20)

No, for everybody. Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:22:32)

compared to shaving off literal what felt like pieces of yourself and your mind and your being to deliver is already an improvement, but it is a new way through which that same energy is asking to be integrated. So I just wanted to like kind of offer that as a piece for reflection.

Patricia (1:22:50)

thousand percent because I feel like I mean especially this year I feel like I've been been given the same I feel like my whole life circled back to 2010 2011 and I've been put on the same path but with a totally it's the same doors but totally different set of keys and now it's just everything's different but the themes are the same. The themes are the same from love life to social life to business to career. it's all the freaking same.

Everything is the same to that time period. So when you brought up that like 20, 21, 22 activation period, the thing is I think I'm hitting it again. I think this is round two, but I have a better head on my shoulders. I'm not sacrificing myself for abundance or even just to live. Like that I used to sacrifice myself just for shits and giggles. Like so exactly. Majorly.

Laurel Kassor (1:23:37)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. No, for real. you don't even realize it's so subtle. The self-sabotage, which is another Neptune Pillar

twelve, like low integration point. it's it's the Neptune thing. Like lie to yourself and you don't even realize it. You make yourself a victim, you don't even realize it, until you like truly take some fucking accountability and Saturn is on our moon, making sure we do not forget to do that.

Patricia (1:23:59)

Truly, truly. It's just right there at all times.

Laurel Kassor (1:24:02)

this was a so fun. I really can't express what a good time this was. I was so

Patricia (1:24:06)

Same.

I've enjoyed this so much.

Laurel Kassor (1:24:07)

Sincerely full

of eurekas. Like that is, and I know you do too, but here's a fun fact about us moon and Aquarius people, like we live for the fucking aha, eureka, so it is novelty, gives us a sense of comfort for like the unexpected because this is kind of sad at first, but like because emotionally as children like we are doing experience a pretty erratic support system.

Patricia (1:24:17)

Good. Truly.

It's

true.

Laurel Kassor (1:24:33)

That later

we learn to like int internalize that excitement Yes.

Patricia (1:24:39)

You have to figure out a way to do it healthy. You have to figure out a healthy way

because in the past, those that all of that would have been it, yeah. We should just not look at my exes. let's just shove that. But that like that is what it does. It gets dangerous. You put yourself in stupid situations. These same things can be had. Like, I know I need adrenaline to function, otherwise I get weird. Okay, I don't have to go risk my life clim like skydiving or bungee jumping. I can

Laurel Kassor (1:24:48)

It gets dangerous.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Patricia (1:25:05)

Like we'll pick up a new sport that's like skateboarding. Okay. It's hard, but like chill the fuck out. Or I have to tell friends, like, hey, I'm getting into this sport. Can you make sure I don't go crazy? there's ways to manage it. And then also again, like the life path. There you can still have the same necessary coping mechanisms in a healthy package for the most part. That doesn't apply to everything, obviously, but like for the most part, you can change that. That's that alchemy that you've been talking about.

Laurel Kassor (1:25:08)

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

One hundred percent. It it

is

such a feature of I think having like the sun and Pluto in aspect of each other is like you, yes, you, you literally create the alchemy. Like it is like you are the one who can shift and change and transmute your decisions, thus creating a whole new reality around you. Right. I think that like when you are touched by outer planets, we we learn those lessons very intimately, very early, you know.

Patricia (1:25:49)

Yeah.

Very much.

Laurel Kassor (1:26:02)

Yeah. Ugh, I could talk to you all day. But alas, you have to go to bed over there on the other side of the world. So thank you again for being here. And y'all don't forget to stay in orbit by subscribing, leave a comment, and let us know what's landing for you. And of course, sprinkle some stardust by sharing this podcast with the Astro Hoes in your life. You can find me at soularcastrology.com on threads at astro underscore.

Patricia (1:26:04)

I know, it could be hours.

Thank you.

Laurel Kassor (1:26:29)

Aries or on Instagram at soul arc underscore astrology. Until next time, seekers Ad astra

Patricia (1:26:36)

You're awesome. That was great. Bravo.