EP07 Processing Past Lives: Writing Through the Witch Wound with Lanna Graham
>> LISTEN ON YOUR FAVORITE PLATFORM <<
EP07 Processing Past Lives: Writing Through the Witch Wound with Lanna Graham
Before she had words for it, she already knew how to follow a pull. She was barely a year old when she climbed toward the flame. What she learned instead wasn't about fire. It was that exploring the unknown comes with a cost.
But Lanna Grace has been burned before — literally. And she's done letting that stop her.
Lanna Grace is an energy expert turned dark romance author who has spent nearly two decades helping women heal the witch wound and navigate spiritual awakening. In this episode, she shares the story of a childhood shaped by abandonment, authority, and the slow suppression of a magic so undeniable it kept getting her killed for it — across multiple lives. Through a live Soul Arc Astrology™ reading, Laurel traces the chart signatures of the witch wound, Pillar 12 saturation, and why some people are literally built to channel from the other side.
If you've ever felt like your gifts were too much — too weird, too deep, too hard to explain — this episode is for you.
✨ CHART TEASE
A chart so soaked in Pillar 12 it practically dissolves the edges of time. Pisces Sun, Pisces Moon, Neptune in the first house squaring the Sun — and a fourth house stellium holding the entire story of a lineage, a lost childhood, and a multidimensional channel coming fully online. The only earth placement in the whole chart? Chiron in Taurus in the sixth house. Practical magic — or it's nothing.
IN THIS EPISODE
Why Neptune square the Sun creates a lifelong template of "your magic will get you punished for it"
The stove incident, the brown car, and how childhood plot points map directly to chart placements in real time
What Chiron in Taurus in the 6th house has to do with psychic senses as a literal skill set
Billy — and how two abandonments inside one year cemented the belief that everyone you love will leave
Being told you're a liar at 14 in court — and how that connects to the writing work Lanna is doing now
Neptune into Pisces, 14 years of meandering, and what it looks like when an outer planet hits your entire fourth house stellium
Past lives as processing portals — how writing dark romance is Lanna's active alchemy of lifetimes of karma
The difference between free flow writing and automatic writing — and why your voice is a sacral issue, not a confidence issue
Chiron moving into Taurus and what it's activating for Gen X right now
MEMORABLE MOMENTS
"That exploration got me in trouble every time. In every past life. That has been a very deep wound."
"I lived the first half of my life on autopilot. Autopilot was my best friend."
"A big large part of what we deem mental illness is spiritual awakening that is going unrecognized."
"I'm not here to perform this shit for you. I'm here to teach you how to do it yourself."
ABOUT LANNA GRACE
Lanna Grace is a Canadian energy expert, past life channel, and dark romance author whose work sits at the intersection of spiritual awakening and interdimensional storytelling. With nearly two decades across evidentiary mediumship, Kundalini Reiki, past life regression, and Akashic Records work, Lanna channels her multidimensional experiences directly into fiction published on her Patreon. Her Skool community Awakening Moons is a space for seekers who want to go deeper — without pretending it's all kumbaya and candles.
CONNECT WITH LANNA GRACE
Threads: @moonoverpisces
Website: www.campsite.bio/moonoverpisces
Connect with Laurel
Laurel Kassor is an astro-oracle, biz strategist, and the founder of Soul Arc Astrology™ — a system that turns birth charts into precision tools for real-world impact. She hosts Made for This, where she pairs guests' lived stories with live chart readings to prove, episode after episode, that astrology doesn't happen to you — it happens through you.
Website: soularcastrology.com/links
Threads: @astro_aries
Join The Kindred: If this conversation lit something up in you, your kindred spirits are waiting. → soularcastrology.com/thekindred
If You Enjoyed This Episode...Subscribe, leave a review, and sprinkle some stardust on us by sharing this video with the astro-hoes in your life!
Laurel Kassor (00:10)
Welcome to Orbit Seekers. This is episode seven of Made for This with Laurel Kassor the podcast where soul-led practitioners, educators, and creatives come together to connect the constellations on how astrology turns from abstract insight to real world impact when you follow your soul's arc. I'm Laurel Kassor your Astro Oracle host and founder of Soul Arc Astrology. And today I am joined by the sweet and psychic Lanna Grace. Lanna is an energy expert turned dark.
romance author who has spent nearly two decades helping women heal their witch wound and navigate their spiritual awakening. From platform mediumship to kundalini Reiki to writing spicy, tragic, and deeply empowering fiction, Lanna has weaved meaning into every thread her soul has handed her throughout each of her lifetimes. And I have a feeling her chart is going to have a lot to say about that. Lanna, thank you so much for sharing space with me today.
Lisa Graham (01:07)
Thank you for having me. I am so so excited to be able to do this with you. I've been looking forward to it since the moment we talked about it.
Laurel Kassor (01:15)
my gosh, I've been so excited to hear more about your story as well because I know you are one psychic ass motherfucker. And yeah. you only a Pisces sun, Pisces moon, Scorpio, rising. I remember when you told me your signs, I was like, holy source energy, Batman.
Lisa Graham (01:23)
Me? No, not at all.
Yeah.
Yeah. We came in this time to do some big things. been working our entire life to get here, so
Laurel Kassor (01:44)
and that the story. So, Lanna why don't you tell us a little bit more about that work in your own words? How do you use your gifts?
Lisa Graham (01:51)
Right. So for a very long time. you know, I started back back in the day, we say. S I and I'm gonna be honest, I don't remember exactly how, when, where, or why this started. But I I I s I started going to the Spirituals Church back at like we're talking in the odds, eight, nine, somewhere in there, right? Two thousand eight, two thousand nine. I'd had some
Laurel Kassor (02:08)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Lisa Graham (02:11)
Some things happen. My father passed away. and so evidentiary mediumship seemed like the right way to start. And so it just kind of snowballed from there. I started with the usual Asui Reiki, had a very, very crazy bunch of things happen, which I know we're gonna dive into, so I don't want to get too much into those right off the hop. and it just kind of evolved.
I started just learning different forms of energy healing, started learning about, you know, light language and kundalini energy and all of those fun little things, right? So, and I can I I can do them all. it's almost like Jill of all spiritual trades, you know, type type idea. And then about a year and a half ago, it just kind of
kicked me. Like it was like I don't I can't sustain this anymore, these one-on-ones, all of this. Because as a Pisces, we take on that energy of the people we're working with. We take on and I was starting to get burned out. And so
Laurel Kassor (03:00)
Mm-hmm. It's a very spongy
energy. Mm-hmm.
Lisa Graham (03:03)
Very much, very much. And
and that has been a big part of the focus of my work then is learning energetic hygiene, learning how to be in my own energy, how to be very grounded and present in me. and understand, wait a second, that's not my feeling. you know, having worked retail for many, many years as well, huh? It has been it has been the biggest blessing to be in a position.
Laurel Kassor (03:24)
Ugh Queen.
Lisa Graham (03:29)
Now where I don't have to do that anymore. and I'm so so grateful for that. Like I can't even begin to say how grateful I am because just going to the grocery store can be an energetic hygiene nightmare.
Laurel Kassor (03:41)
a hundred percent.
Lisa Graham (03:42)
So
Laurel Kassor (03:42)
I remember,
before I full sent into astrology, I spent ten years in the service industry, as a server or a bartender And by the end of it my mask had crumbled off. It had totally fallen off. And I I will never forget I worked at a tiki bar. there was like nobody in it that random Thursday evening. We had live music and
Lisa Graham (03:55)
Yes. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (04:03)
I had essentially kind of a meltdown. I had a sensory meltdown
Lisa Graham (04:06)
Yep.
Because
as we kind of step more into those, the the clairs as we call them, like because we know there's a there's a a sixth sense for every sense we have, and that clairgoustin's, that tasting one is the s freakiest one of them all.
clairgoustiance is one that happens to me a lot. and I blame my grandfather. This started back when I was doing the evidentiary mediumship years and years and years ago.
I could taste black liquorish and I knew it was my pip and I was like, thanks, because that is the one taste in the whole world that I think is the absolute worst. So he knew exactly how to get my attention. So and that's one that's just it just kind of happens, right?
Laurel Kassor (04:37)
gosh!
I did notice that your your Chiron.
Who in my system is the planetary force that has to do with what I call pillar six, which includes Virgo energy, the sixth house, and the waxing quinks aspect.
And Chiron as the planetary force of said energy, it's a service energy. Anyway, all of those things have to do with skill set and modality and the ability and the capability and the practice of a technical skill. Your Chiron's in Taurus, which has to do with the fucking senses. So part of your literal skill set having to do with the clairs, but all of them apparently, every single Claire, like is very already shining through
because that you're you're telling us that your practical methodology has to do with bringing your skill, which is spiritual nature, into the physical in very tangible ways. So like right out of a gate hello.
Lisa Graham (05:36)
Yeah, yeah.
yeah, and very much about making it practical to people, practical ways for them to integrate it into their lives. Because you're not gonna do it if it's not practical.
Laurel Kassor (05:50)
and your Chiron's in the sixth house of practicality! And Chiron is the planet of practicality.
Lisa Graham (05:53)
Imagine that.
Laurel Kassor (05:54)
This is like basically aside from another one Earth planet, this the only Earth planet in your chart. So it's interesting that everything else has to do with spirituality and channeling and intuition and source and the ether. But as you're talking about your literal craft, which is the question I asked you, hey, tell us about the work you do, tell us about how you serve people. You've naturally brought us right into Chiron in Taurus in your sixth house
Lisa Graham (06:04)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (06:20)
beautiful.
Lisa Graham (06:20)
Exactly. Exactly. So
yeah, long story short, I did all this work for close to twenty years. I did one-on-one sessions, I did spiritual coaching, I taught Kundalini Reiki, I did all of the things. And I was getting burnt out. And I got a very clear message, step back. And I was like, my god, how am I gonna make money? 'Cause you know, that was my that was my bread and butter. And they're like, Don't worry about it.
Laurel Kassor (06:26)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Lisa Graham (06:44)
So I did. And I ended up I clean houses for my majority of my income these days because I switched completely. These past life stories were coming through and I was having to work the absolute visceral tangible emotion behind these lives. Exactly.
And I was like, I need to tell these stories. I need and the themes were, like I said, they were dark. They were adult. They were traumatic at times. and I went, you know what? So there's been three things in my life, three big things. I've always loved to read romance books. I mean, we're talking
Right.
Laurel Kassor (07:21)
Everyone, everyone. Hello. Lanna has Mercury conjunct Venus. So the planet that has to do with books, the planet has to do with love. Hello. I mean there's a million and a half other ways that's gonna come through, but like being a romance writer right out the gate. Like when I first pulled your chart, I was like, there it is.
Lisa Graham (07:31)
Exactly.
Exactly.
I've done some study of Tantra, and I do believe that, and especially like as a woman in in very deep in the throes of perimenopause, sexuality is something that gets shoved to the sidelines. It's like that's not part of my life anymore. And I kind of went, but I miss it, right? Like you do, you miss that stuff.
Laurel Kassor (07:38)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Lisa Graham (07:58)
So I was like, I need to find a way to bring that back into my life. And so it it it I I don't even know how to explain it really, but I just start writing and the words just I I'm not writing. I'm probably channeling, absolutely.
Laurel Kassor (08:11)
I can't explain it. You want me to take a stab? You are. You're exactly channeling. That's exact. I mean, hello. Okay.
But we're here to understand like why the hell did your life shape up in this incredibly imaginative and powerful oracle pathway here. So if it's okay with you, I'd like to redirect us to working with the chart. Okay, wonderful. So
Lisa Graham (08:43)
Absolutely.
Laurel Kassor (08:47)
I have a technique that I use that I learned from one of my professors. it's a timing technique and it tells us kind of where the big plot points of our developmental childhood experiences are. And at those plot points, we find planets, and each planet represents it well, what it represents, of course, but also any other energy that it is touching through an aspect also.
Lisa Graham (09:06)
Ha ha ha.
Laurel Kassor (09:12)
gets activated for the first time for us then too. set up these templates for us. It's almost like ad libs a little bit where it's like there's a story outline structure with stuff that moves a story along.
But most of the time we get to fill in the blanks around things. But there are these big formative moments. So the first one that I noticed in your chart came really early for you. So if you don't remember all the details or even know about all maybe what I'm talking about, that's okay, and we can move on to the next plot point. But this one looks like it would have been right around a year old. This is Neptune.
In Sagittarius, in your first house. your Neptune does make a few aspects to other planets. I'll talk about those in a second. But this energy, like right up front, it is number one, a generational energy. So you and your generation all share this Neptune and Sagittarius placement.
But what varies is where in the chart it lands and which planets it's touching. Now, what's really interesting is that you and two of my other guests so far, you're number seven, so two of my other guests so far and me all share this aspect together. All of us who identify as oracles. Isn't that something?
Lisa Graham (10:41)
That's fascinating.
Laurel Kassor (10:42)
It is not something. This aspect is Neptune in a square with your sun. The sun has to do with identity. The sun is the planetary force of what I call the pillar five creation.
So it is the force of identity choice, validation, decision making, ego, of course, right? It is where we shine our little lights upon in the world. But Neptune was your first plot point energy, but it pulled in identity immediately. Okay, so we'll talk more about that in a second. But Neptune can be confusing in its nature, especially when you are a one-year-old infant baby child, because you can only participate.
Lisa Graham (11:16)
Yes.
Yes.
Laurel Kassor (11:23)
and integrate at the level of which you are currently occupying. So to a one-year-old child to be faced with the planetary force, the first plot point in their awareness is the last planet of the pillar system.
It is the planet of Pillar 12 integration. This is associated with Pisces energy, the 12th house energy, and the waning semi-sextile. And this energy is about the dissolve back into the whole unity, transcendence, etc. etc. But to a one-year-old, it can feel like loss, grief, confusion, spinning. I have literally it has come through as literal waves, ocean waves.
shit like that. So is there anything around one year old that you might be aware of that had this almost like dreamy and or slash nightmare kind of quality to it? and potentially having to do with your father because it is in deep connection to your sun as well.
Lisa Graham (12:16)
Well yes.
it's interesting that you mentioned my father because we did not have a good good relationship.
And the hearsay is when I was born, my father's first comment was, nice child, too bad she isn't mine. Meanwhile, I look an awful lot like him, let me tell you. So that's how we got started there. But
Around one, somewhere between one and eighteen months. I'm not a hundred percent sure exactly how old I was. but I do remember the exact pajamas I was wearing. You remember those pink ones with the the plastic feet and zipper and little thingy here? yeah. I was wearing those and it was the middle of the night. At least I'm assuming it was the middle of the night because it was dark and everyone was sleeping.
Laurel Kassor (12:51)
Mm.
Yeah yes.
That
would make sense.
Lisa Graham (13:06)
I was curious. And I'd seen my mom turn the stove on. So I climbed up on the stove and I turned the burners on and they were glowing red hot. And I was screaming my poor little head off because I didn't know what to do. I was I was a baby. I and I vividly recall this even now. You know, at in my late forties, you know, like I still remember this. And
Laurel Kassor (13:23)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa Graham (13:27)
And what I remember was instead of comforting me and calming my nervous system, my mother screamed and yelled at me. Yeah, so very much identity curiosity will kill the cat is the lesson I learned there.
Laurel Kassor (13:38)
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely. So there are a couple things just even in that story right there. while the sun does typically represent father, it is your son in the fourth house, which represents just caregivers. It can be very specifically tied up into mom, especially if your father wasn't super present, which is another feature of Sun Square Neptune. The square energy creates a tension. This particular square is an opening or a
Waxing square, and so it carries the undertone of the support energies, the moon, cancer, the fourth house. But this aspect carries that energy. So there is a template set, there's a spectrum set where
We are afraid of rejection, neglect, abandonment. there is these things that like the cancer energy, the fourth house is like trying to protect and defend what we care about. But the undertone of the opening square is like, you don't belong here. Right. And so there is this energy already coming through there that we're seeing come through with the dad, especially.
Lisa Graham (14:40)
Yes.
Yep.
Laurel Kassor (14:52)
right out the gate. He's like, nope, Confusing paternity would make sense.
Lisa Graham (14:57)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (14:58)
With
the sun squared Neptune. So there's that piece of the puzzle. But also the burner Neptune is in Sagittarius, you squaring your sun, you know. so there we see some very literal fire stuff. I'm wondering if there isn't other st and obviously it's like it was you were a baby infant, so we can only know what we know here. But I what I do wonder what other like Neptune.
Lisa Graham (15:06)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (15:23)
Neptunian influences were there. because it's not necessarily Neptune itself isn't curious, finger quotes, finger quotes, finger quotes. It's more like floaty, imaginative, dreamy,
But something just popped in that makes me wonder if part of what was associated then was like, if you follow your intuition, if you follow your hunches, the rejection comes from that. What do you think about that?
Lisa Graham (15:49)
I there there's absolute truth in that. because the other kind of part that I was gonna say was about with Neptune being that imaginative imaginative dreamy kind of thing, right from around that time there was a lot of like squashing of the imagination by my parents. Get your head out of the clouds, don't daydream, be practical.
So the fact that I have landed where I am now and the amount of work that it's taken, that makes absolute perfect sense.
Laurel Kassor (16:19)
really does that being tied into a loss of imagination specifically makes a lot of sense especially if because I was like where is the Neptune in that because that like quite curiosity but if you had a fucking one year old's imagination of like what the fuck is that like like what could be what could happen possibilities
Lisa Graham (16:37)
Yeah, yeah. That looks cool. I wanna check it out.
Laurel Kassor (16:40)
Because then of course that tracks into the big long journey of self-acceptance and also a lot of the because there is going to be so much that's going to revolve around this aspect.
Lisa Graham (16:44)
Yes.
Laurel Kassor (16:55)
other. The closer things are together, the louder the echo reverberates through our lived reality, right? So it's gonna come through in a multitude of ways.
Lisa Graham (16:58)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Although there was
one one other like memory that I think I was kind of a l maybe a little bit older, like closer to two.
because I was in a like regular bed. and I remember waking up at the wrong end of the bed. But because the covers were tucked in and my head was at the wrong end, I freaked out and couldn't get out. And I thought everybody I I everyone was gone, they'd abandoned me, like nobody nobody could hear me. Like it was it was it was a very dramatic moment for little me.
Laurel Kassor (17:15)
Mm-hmm.
It's crazy
what's traumatic for a child. Like sometimes there's stuff that happens that's like actually traumatic and you're like, holy fuck. And then other times you're like, that's silly. They and he were just stuck in the covers. But you you can't tell that to a child. They have no r ration nor reasoning yet. And I can see how that would make so much sense because being lo the sensations of being lost are very Neptunian. And so
Lisa Graham (17:38)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
No. No. They have no context. Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Laurel Kassor (17:58)
One of the things I we're going to end up it's going to just be a probably a super central point of this episode is Neptune and Pisces and Pillar what I call Pillar 12 integration. This energy is represented by Neptune and represented by Pisces and the 12th house and the waning semi-sextile. They're all sourced from the same kind of energetic archetype.
Lisa Graham (18:08)
yeah.
Right.
Laurel Kassor (18:26)
this field of awareness and it's a spectrum. So you have such a heavy stack, I would call it. Heavy stack of Pillar 12. Because not only is Neptune one of the first planets that your consciousness met, it's also making tight and direct conversation with your identity and creation.
Lisa Graham (18:34)
Ha ha ha ha.
Yes.
Laurel Kassor (18:54)
Epicenter, which is the sun, and your sun is in Pisces, the sign of Pillar 12, and your moon is in Pisces, the sign of Pillar 12. Right? So we see this, there's this echo. your Neptune is calling a lot of shots. Ultimately, the a lot sources back.
To that Neptune and Sagittarius, which also is a little bit of like a psychonaut there. Like we want to explore this great unknown. How do we survive in the world, which is part of your Neptune in the first house? The first house has a lot to do with the impact pillar. So Aries and Mars and the first house are all about like the survival energy and this movement energy. So it's like our how do we make an impact in the world? And part of what some.
Lisa Graham (19:35)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (19:40)
those early formative plot points would have cemented into the story of Lanna and Lanna's unfolding was exploring that's what the fire fucking was. Okay, I was like, there's something around this fire I'm not settled into totally. Exploring the unknown, like the flames represented this great unknown to you as a child. That was like it, right? Okay, boom. I knew it would land.
Lisa Graham (19:59)
Ha ha ha.
Laurel Kassor (20:06)
But you were exploring that great unknown, but you're finding out that if you do that, there's danger involved. You might get rejected, you might get scolded, you might create an ill effect, a kickback, if you will, from the impulse to explore, which is also part of that. Neptune being the first house. How is this landing for you?
Lisa Graham (20:11)
Yep.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
it's you have no idea, like it's like you've known me my whole life just telling me that little piece. because that is literally it's not just a theme that I dealt with in this life, but as I looked back into all of those past lives, that exploration got me in trouble every time. So that has been a very deep wound that we've had to work through and and
Laurel Kassor (20:30)
Ha ha ha ha!
Lisa Graham (20:48)
heal and
Laurel Kassor (20:49)
This energy, the square that I mentioned, like this it's not the only thing that your Neptune does. Like it's the square is not the only aspect it makes, but it is, boy howdy, an important one. It
Lisa Graham (20:54)
No. No.
Ha ha
Laurel Kassor (21:01)
we experience the shit end of the stick, kind of to an extent. When we're children, because we don't have capacity to make other decisions. We're we're really, it is our first rodeo, right? But over time, and this work you're describing, this opening square, this waxing square that carries the frequency of pillar four and the moon and cancer, et cetera.
Lisa Graham (21:04)
Literally.
No.
Laurel Kassor (21:26)
It needs embrace. That is the ticket to making these sorts of connections functional. is a active, conscious, welcoming of that which threatens us. Right? Like it is where it is literally saying, I d you might reject me. You might scare the shit out of me. You might never want to talk to me again. I might lose everything I care about, but I gotta.
Lisa Graham (21:39)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (21:50)
take this this risk and embrace this thing that threatens me in some way. And that is the work of the opening square. And when you have a aspect like this with this with the sun, it's it's a doozy. I say this from like deep experience. I say this from deep experience because there is this sense of like, my God, if I embrace this un
Lisa Graham (22:08)
Yes.
Laurel Kassor (22:15)
known quality that I have a hard time putting into words that I can sense is there but can't see that that it threatens me and my being in some way that I won't be whatever accepted is usually I won't belong. I won't be accepted. And that is part of the witch wound I can imagine that this is part of where the witch wound begins is with this touching of the burner. Witches were burned. my god.
Lisa Graham (22:38)
Absolutely. Absolutely.
And
let me tell you, not only have I been burned, drowned, beheaded in past lives for being a witch.
Laurel Kassor (22:50)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa Graham (22:51)
All of it, right? So the exploration got me in trouble. I literally had a dream when I first started when when I first started exploring even just like the psychic world in general, and past life memories just started floating to the surface. Like most people are like, I don't remember my past lives, and I'm like, I wish I didn't sometimes.
But specifically I had a very, very vivid, very vivid dream where I woke up and I could smell the bucket my head was over before the axe fell. It was yeah.
Yeah, it was awful. Absolutely awful. And I was like, okay, guess I was guess I was killed for being a witch there. Okay. i in this life, all I can do is look at it and say, you know what, that is an energy. That is not who I am anymore. I'm not I'm not an active participant in that life anymore. So we can let that energy go and we don't have to be afraid of that exploration anymore.
Laurel Kassor (23:32)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Ooh, girl. Gorgeous. I agree. I feel that in my solar plexus. my solar plexus and my heart chakra are like they're going nut so right now. Incredible. Thank you so like we could just keep digging and digging at that one aspect, like the whole time, I'm sure. Because again, and we're gonna come back to it because it is again, like I didn't expect us to like source the witch room back to it, but it duh.
Lisa Graham (23:54)
Ha ha.
Excited. Perfect.
I know. I know.
Laurel Kassor (24:17)
Duh! Ugh! That's so cool. So we're gonna come back to her. She's gonna show up in a thousand and ten different ways, but let's scoot our butts forward just a little bit in your timeline here because clearly that first aspect set a major template for the unfolding journey around embracing your magic, really. I mean, we can pretty much boil it down to accepting the fact that
Lisa Graham (24:25)
yes.
Laurel Kassor (24:43)
You've gotta accept your magic in this world if you wanna survive it. it's ironic because it's almost in a sense it could feel like I have to protect myself by suppressing my magic or smothering it somehow in order to survive the world around me. I believe that. I absolutely believe that. Mm-hmm.
Lisa Graham (24:45)
Mm-hmm.
Which I did for years. For years.
For years.
Laurel Kassor (25:03)
It's
I've lived I've lived same same different. You know, where it's like, nope, that's not true. Nope, that's not real. Nope, not hearing things. Nope, I made that up. Wow, I'm a great guesser. Wow, how did I learn all this information that no one ever taught me and I have no right to know?
Lisa Graham (25:08)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Right.
Laurel Kassor (25:21)
next aspect that I want to pull out from your chart
Lisa Graham (25:19)
Absolutely.
Laurel Kassor (25:25)
this looks like more a few years later, but still pretty early in childhood. This would be maybe about four-ish, three and a half, four.
Lisa Graham (25:38)
So my parents have been fighting, you know, usual stuff. One night I get up because I hear things. I go to the door, I see my mom getting in a strange vehicle. I look at my dad and I say, Dad, where's mommy going? And he said, Don't worry, she'll be back in the morning. She was not back in the morning. Abandonment wound 101.
That's that was I I I knew before you even said that transit you said around four. I was like, nope, that's exactly that that's exactly what it is.
Laurel Kassor (26:03)
This is really interesting to me. wow. Okay, so the aspect that lands about at this time is your Ceres, the planet Ceres in Capricorn in your second house. She is in a loose, but still definitely a square to Pluto.
She is what we would call at the bending of the nodes, which is a fancy way of saying she's right hanging out in between the north node and the south node, and knowing that you're are a past life girly. A lot of folk interpret the north and the south node as a progression of lifetime axis as well. So if we're gonna we're
Lisa Graham (26:31)
Okay.
Yeah. I did know that.
I did know that. Yeah. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (26:42)
We're gonna, I had a feeling if you knew anything about astrology besides your big three that you specifically would know about the notes.
Pillar 12 has been very active in your short early lifetime. So, what this is translating to, Ceres, in our system, Soul ARC astrology, she is the planetary agent that represents pillar two, value. This has everything to do with Taurus, okay, the second house.
Lisa Graham (27:08)
Yes.
Laurel Kassor (27:27)
And the waxing semi-sextile aspect. In other words, this is the pillar of our awareness that has to do with consistency and stability and the anchoring into the tangible and the density and that which physically is necessary and needed to survive.
You have Ceres in the second house. In my system, that's a stack.
Maybe we have the planet of Pillar Two in the house of Pillar Two, which means we're turning the volume up on how important or prevalent the ideas of consistency are for us and sustainability and reliability and dependability and food and money and literal physical resources, the concepts of ownership would be super significant with this sort of placement there.
Lisa Graham (28:09)
Ha ha ha.
Yeah. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (28:20)
And what we see is that this energy, and it also, by the way, has a lot to do with self-soothing. How do you regulate the body and the self? Hell no. And sounds like maybe the one person who would have been helping you co-regulate bounced out, or maybe they weren't even doing that much. I'm so sorry. Hoif.
Lisa Graham (28:27)
And at four we would not have known how.
Yeah. No, she w she was she was not. She was not.
Laurel Kassor (28:43)
Moon and Pisces. Okay. We're walking our way to that moon. But this energy is in that sextile to Uranus, who brings in sudden and unexpected changes. The opening sextile is associated with Pillar Three, who is also Mercury and Neptune, a AKA transit and travel and cars. Like there's a
You said you specified the car thing and I like, Wow, that's like a very vivid detail.
Lisa Graham (29:09)
I even remember
that it was a brown car.
Laurel Kassor (29:13)
Boom. I mean, like, yeah, Ooh, it's my heart. My heart for baby Lanna. I'm giving her the tightest hug. Like, for real. But also, this is in Capricorn. So this had something to do with learning that you are now responsible Mm-hmm.
Lisa Graham (29:14)
Yeah.
Imagine that. Imagine that.
Because it it would have been right around that time that I started feeling like I had to be responsible for other people's feelings.
I like I specifically remember lots of different times, it's okay, Daddy, it's okay, you know, and especially my younger brother at the time. Like he's two years younger than me. And I I did a lot of like, let's go play, let's not bother daddy because daddy's stressed out kind of thing. I mean, and not that I understood at four or five that it was like stress. I just
Laurel Kassor (29:50)
Mm.
No.
Lisa Graham (30:03)
Dad's mad, let's get away from him. You know, that was my strategy.
Laurel Kassor (30:06)
it's interesting that you knew
it was stress though, even if you didn't know what stress was. Because stress is a word associated with Capricorn. Yeah, pressure. And depression as well.
Lisa Graham (30:12)
Yeah.
That's interesting.
Yep, yep. Well yeah, he would have went
through that too.
Laurel Kassor (30:22)
yes. And this is again, when we are baby children, like our parents and the world around us is teaching us about how we feel inside about things. things are symbolic for certain you know, I call them pillars. Other people, who I know study IFS internal family systems have different archetypal names for them.
Lisa Graham (30:40)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (30:42)
But yeah,
part of the reason why this one wanted to jump out I is that it relates back to your Saturn
Your Saturn is in Leo. Leo is a sign associated with the father, which means like something about strict father, depressed father, rules of father.
Lisa Graham (30:56)
Mm.
Silent father.
Laurel Kassor (31:00)
Silent father, man. It's there's a lot we can unpack there. And your Saturn's retrograde, which I have found again and again, retrograde planets maintain the theme of the planet, but they will demonstrate it in a almost subversive way. it's the best way I found kind of to describe it. Cause like it will clearly do the thing it's supposed to do, but it does it in a way where you're like, huh, hmm.
Lisa Graham (31:04)
Yeah.
Yep. Yep.
Laurel Kassor (31:24)
Interesting. Okay. I guess you had to figure out that one yourself.
Lisa Graham (31:27)
yeah, that was a tough one. That
was a tough one. And the following I guess it would have been about six or eight months later, I was I had started kindergarten and I made friends with this boy. His name was Billy, and we played together, we ate lunch together. We this was still when you napped in kindergarten, napped together.
And I didn't expect to get emotional about this, but I still do occasionally. In January of that year, he just stopped coming to school. And I didn't know why until a few days later. I overheard my father and the babysitter, so this was before my father remarried, overheard them talking and I see on the front of the newspaper that they're looking at it's a crash scene.
And Billy and his mother and three of his brothers. He had had four, there were five boys. Four of the five boys were in the car. It was a foggy, snowy January night. They were on their way to hockey practice. Nobody told me. Nobody gave me the space to understand what grief was. Nobody said, your friend died. Nobody said that. They just went, shh.
Laurel Kassor (32:14)
Mm.
Lisa Graham (32:26)
Little ears. Because remember, this was nineteen eighty-three, right? We didn't talk about things to kids back then. And I got stuck there energetically, emotionally. People I love will leave me. I don't know how to respond to this. For the and I got stuck there for a very long time. it was not until about five or six years ago that I was able to actually
Laurel Kassor (32:39)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Lisa Graham (32:48)
deal with the memory to release the energy of it, to have the emotionality that needed to happen, the grief to come out behind it. So yeah. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (32:55)
my gosh, Lanna. That
Lisa Graham (33:01)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, with within less than a year. So
Yeah. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (33:18)
Ooh, I can ooh, girly, hmm holding
that baby baby. She learned and has come a s so fucking far. Wow, and especially in processing oof oof.
Lisa Graham (33:28)
Yes.
I
I I attribute that processing to psychedelics. There's a whole story behind that one. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (33:35)
Okay, but that is also pillar 12. Like it
really is. Neptune and Pisces and the 12th house, they all source from this energy that has to do with altered states, altered dimensions. What is not here? The substances. an incredibly low-hanging fruit for hard aspects with this particular.
Lisa Graham (33:47)
Hehehehehe.
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (33:54)
Particular oops, ouch, I hit my table. I know, I'm like, freaking pillar 12! it is one of the more common ways that the trickiness of this energy can come through, right?
Lisa Graham (33:57)
just hammering that point home.
Yes.
Some heavy stuff for a small child.
Laurel Kassor (34:08)
it's funny because as you had shifted into telling that story, I was like, I didn't really point out the connection to Pluto. Now I can because it's the same energy. So the thing about your mom leaving and your friend passing is that and why it's part of the same pattern.
Is that that's Ceres, which makes shit real. So death would've become a very real thing. And it's not just death. It would be a like scary loss. You know? It'd be like the
Lisa Graham (34:28)
Yes.
Yes.
Laurel Kassor (34:37)
Death fall to me, death falls across a cup two pillars specifically. There are because I think there are two finger quotes types of death processes. I think there is death itself, which is the transformation process, which is pillar eight, Pluto and Scorpio and the eighth house, and the waning quinks. And then there is pillar twelve, which is the
Lisa Graham (34:56)
Yeah. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (35:03)
integration and that is like the the dissolving and the floating and the becoming whole and the grieving not the process of the death but the grieving of the of the death right and they do meet and they often meet especially in like
Lisa Graham (35:11)
Yes.
Yes. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (35:20)
mediums specifically. especially people who can communicate across the veil. They show up together a lot in shamanic work. And I know you had mentioned that
Lisa Graham (35:29)
I have done some. I have done some dream walking. I
have done some shamanic journeys. It's yeah, I've done a little bit of everything, like I said.
Laurel Kassor (35:37)
Mm-hmm. with a stellium, a planet's in the fourth house, too. So that's pulling in cancer theme. So the amount of water water everywhere. And all kinds of drops to drink. All kinds of drops. But where I was going with this, and I love working with Neptune people because we like to spiral around and we come back around and round and round. But back to that Pluto piece. Pluto is the pillar eight.
Lisa Graham (35:45)
Yes.
Yep.
Laurel Kassor (36:02)
The process of transforming catharsis, healing, the alchemy energy is Pluto. In our early life, Pluto is a cool quite a heavy and spooky dude. It is very Grim Reaper. It is very like death to this relationship.
Death to that relationship. It's interesting because you had also mentioned this was also around the time where I realized I was becoming very responsible for other people's feelings. your Pluto and your generation's Pluto is in Libra. Part of the generational wound is about healing.
relationships itself. like this collective relationship to Yeah, I what wanted to come out of my mouth was marriage.
Lisa Graham (36:49)
Which would actually make a
would make so much sense for me.
Laurel Kassor (36:53)
That's why we do this. That's why we go backwards in these stories to connect these constellations because there's all so much we've already been like, wow, those things are really all connected. I'm sure there's a million more things running through your head where you're like, holy crap, thank you for sharing that piece and get giving me that chance to connect it back to Pluto because it is a square to Pluto. So again.
Lisa Graham (37:06)
yes, very much. Very much.
Laurel Kassor (37:18)
It's the same type of square, opening square. So again, there is this undertone of can we learn to accept and embrace? Can we learn that we're still safe? Can we become the safety and the support that we are missing
Lisa Graham (37:34)
And
it it and that was the piece that took a very, very long time.
Laurel Kassor (37:38)
Mm.
Lisa Graham (37:39)
Very long time.
To say I lived unconsciously for the first half of my life would not be an understatement. Autopilot was my best friend.
Laurel Kassor (37:47)
You had a lot of early You were introduced to a lot of very heavy themes very early. You know? And we can only again, I am kind of constantly having conversations with myself about forgiving myself for who I was when I didn't know better, when I didn't have words or coping mechanisms that were healthy, when I didn't have awareness, you know.
Lisa Graham (37:52)
Yes, yeah, yeah.
Yes.
Yes, very
much so. Very much so. It has been a it's been an ongoing thing.
Laurel Kassor (38:14)
Mm-hmm. Well, you're doing great, sweetie. Shall we zoom ahead into the next phase?
Lisa Graham (38:17)
Yes.
Laurel Kassor (38:19)
Okay,
this is where there is a stellium in your chart. A stellium is when we have three or more planets piled up pretty closely together. and your fourth house, we do have four planets there. So this tells us a couple of different things. Number one, we have a lot of emphasis across various parts of our awareness oriented to safety and to belonging.
Lisa Graham (38:30)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (38:46)
To family, to the past past lives, I think it could even extend into, right? not with this Pisces energy here. this is the Pisces part of our chart, and it's also the lineage and the root system of the chart as well. So when we say your source from source itself, you know,
Lisa Graham (38:54)
I wouldn't be surprised.
Laurel Kassor (39:07)
We're not exaggerating that, plus the contact directly to Neptune is involved here. a couple of things out the gate. Your moon is here, your sun is here, your Mercury and your Venus are conjunct each other here as well, which tells us there was a lot of number one familial stuff.
Lisa Graham (39:29)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (39:30)
like
triply piled on at this section of life, which runs from about age nine to about fourteen. Can you walk us through a little bit of what was going on?
And I also imagine you were having a lot of dreams. probably very v active dream life too, just to throw that into the mix.
Lisa Graham (39:48)
Yeah, I'm trying to remember. this is a bit of my formative years that I don't remember because of trauma. Imagine that. so my father remarried when I was eight. and his wife was very much spare the rod, spoil the child, type of disciplinarian. And
Laurel Kassor (39:56)
right.
Lisa Graham (40:05)
I guess I I I I'm not a hundred percent certain exactly how old I was. I do know And I remember we were driving home from church. Yes, that was the other aspect was religious. A good Christian woman was was a big theme in my house growing up.
Laurel Kassor (40:19)
Neptune in
Sagittarius would be the connect I mean there are there are multiple connecting dots in here, but your sun gets activated during this time period, which would be the other side of the stove incident. Basically where the stove incident lands at the sun's angle.
Lisa Graham (40:24)
Yeah,
Yes.
So this was the time
period of my life where I I dove into the religion. I I I believed it wholeheartedly. I I was terrified of going to hell. I was terrified of going to hell. Little did I know that I'd actually already been there in another life.
Terrified of going to hell, the pastor could do no wrong in my mind. because you know, I was what, nine, ten, you don't really understand life at that point. but also at the same time
I didn't like my stepmother. I didn't like how she treated us. I I felt it was really unfair. Again, that's that Pluto and Libra, I think, because Gen X were very much like, is it fair? So yeah, a lot of it I was like, it's not fair. It's not fair. Life is not fair. That was a big theme in that time period. And then
I would have been in ninth grade. We were driving home from church and I was sitting in the back, but I overheard my dad and my stepmom talking and I heard her say, they want to talk to us about some discipline issues with the children. And my first thought as a young teenage girl was, what did us kids do now? Because we were always in trouble for something.
Laurel Kassor (41:40)
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lisa Graham (41:41)
That
wasn't the issue at all. It wasn't anything us children had done. It was their treatment of us. Other people had noticed. Noticed to the point where they involved family and children's services.
Laurel Kassor (41:47)
Other people had noticed.
Lisa Graham (41:53)
So at this point, there's myself and my my brother, who we have the same mother and same father. Then I have two other brothers who have the same father, different mother. And then I also had a cousin that we live, because we lived, we we lived on my stepmother's parents' farm. So like we she's not even leaving the nest.
so my brother and I, the one that has the same mother, we went and lived with our mom and talk about going from the frying pan into the fire where one was spare the rod, spoil the child, the other was just just tell them what you think. And it wasn't always nice.
Laurel Kassor (42:20)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa Graham (42:28)
yeah, like we ended up moving in with our mom and then my two other brothers ended up in the foster care system for a while. it ended up going to court, it ended up being a whole thing. you know, and I'm skimming the surface, like as a fourteen year old chah.
Laurel Kassor (42:39)
We're gonna crack this open a little bit more because this is a huge aspect in your life.
Like what you have beelined to is it's comes across multiple dimensions of what you've mentioned about your work now. So we're gonna definitely come back into this deeper.
Lisa Graham (42:53)
Yeah. Well that's interesting. So
the the the the highlight so to speak of that was testifying in court and basically being told I was a liar at fourteen. Yeah. Yeah. Another wound. And like you don't tell me I'm a liar. My honesty and my integrity are like they are the most important pillars of my personality.
So that was that was rough. That was really, really rough. So yeah. and I switched schools too in in ninth grade and yeah, so to two to a ninth grader, that's that's like
Laurel Kassor (43:19)
Ugh, that checks out too. That's another fucking
feature of this energy. what you just took us through you kind of beelined straight into the end teens part, but you did touch on like I think where your moon shows up right around the beginning of this time period is probably what is representing stepmother
But you took us straight into your Mercury Venus conjunction in Pisces in the fourth house,
So Mercury is the planetary agent of pillar three transmission. This is the communication epicenter. this is Mercury, this is Gemini, this is the third house, which so siblings, hi. and also the sextile aspect, the opening sextile. So all of those energies are sourced from this innate intelligence to exchange the inner and the outer, and
Data. It's like the data transference energy, which is speaking, reading, writing, communicating, translating, languages, etc., etc., etc. You said you you know multiple languages. And we started reading early. I love that. That's I love, that's good. Because Neptune is like pool p plucking knowledge from the ether, just the
Lisa Graham (44:14)
Right.
And also did I mention I started reading when I was three? Without help?
Literally.
Laurel Kassor (44:35)
Like literally, it's literally you my hunch, like that it's based in nothing but a hunch, is that like you weren't actually like reading, you were like receiving the Yeah, like receiving the like you know what I mean? Like pulling out the images or the word I don't know. There was something psychic going on. Cause this shit's psychic as fuck. Like Pisces pillar twelve is psychic as fuck. It's a channel pillar, it's the oracle pillar. It's the whole thing.
Lisa Graham (44:46)
Probably.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (45:01)
And what you said earlier at the top, you were like, I don't know where I write these things from. It's from this. It's from this aspect that you pulled out.
Lisa Graham (45:06)
I just just
do I just do me, right? Like and I I'm aware it's channeling and I aware I'm aware it where it's coming from, but I don't I used to overthink it so much that these days I'm just like pfft it comes from where it comes from. You know,
I used to be so like, my God, everything is spiritual. And this isn't it. Like, I was like the spiritual love and light, like bypassed the shit like for the longest time. And when life kicked me in the ass and said, you can't do that anymore, I just it I really detached from the New Age community a lot when it that happened because
Laurel Kassor (45:39)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa Graham (45:43)
Again, it was about feeling like I didn't have a place there because I was like, no, and let's go deeper. Let's go deeper. Let's go deeper. No, no, no, no, let's go deeper than that. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (45:51)
This
is also attached to that same energy.
This energy, this Mercury in Pisces, conjunct Venus in Pisces, number one means that we're pulling a lot of our information and our data from symbolism and from the source energy. That's the Mercury side of it. like Mercury in Pisces thinks symbolically. Like that is its fucking shtick. And then Venus in Pisces.
Lisa Graham (46:11)
yeah.
Laurel Kassor (46:15)
Is attracted to the potential of what could be in the things and it is very much like boundless in its desire to connect and relate. And so when you have them together, it's like this endless cycling.
Lisa Graham (46:19)
Hehehehe
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (46:33)
Energy of like connecting with others or seeing inform data in the symbolism of the people around you, experiences blah around you, blah blah blah. But the thing about this is, and why it's so interesting in the story you just shared is that it is in a very tight square, another square on the scene to Jupiter in Gemini.
Lisa Graham (46:34)
Yes.
He
Laurel Kassor (46:59)
This is interesting because Jupiter is the planet of Pillar Nine.
Expansion, which also just happens to be the pillar of religion. It's Sagittarius, it's Jupiter, it's the ninth house, which is where your Saturn is. Saturn's part of this story, too. Saturn gets tapped into this as well. So this energy is in a square to Mercury and Venus, but unlike the other two squares we've mentioned already, this one is a waning square. So it has a slight
Different undertone. Whereas the Neptune Sun Square and the Pluto Ceres square were more about abandonment, rejection, protection, belonging. This is about authority and
Restrictions and limitations and rules and boundaries and success and discipline and hard work and all that kind of stuff. So what's fucking fascinating, in addition to Saturn is actually tied into this shit as well, which amplifies the authority pillar, Capricorn, Saturn, the closing square, the 10th house.
This energy pulls in the church authorities. Quite literally, the spiritual authorities of church.
already there is this haze, and you had used the words foggy and hazy already. Already there's this like hazy, foggy kind of like
The word like i d delusional is kind of coming to my mind because I think, you know, to survive in certain environments you kind of have to be sometimes, you know, to get through it. and I think your Neptune in the first house knows that a little bit and it feeds that information to these other planets around belonging. And so to find out that, like, I thought this was gonna be about us.
Lisa Graham (48:30)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Yes, yes, yes.
Laurel Kassor (48:50)
But not us us them us like your parents, the authorities, right?
Lisa Graham (48:53)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (48:56)
may have very well created this great discomfort around like, well wait a second, hold on a s what is right? Wait, we're being judged. Wait, am I am I a bad kid? Are they bad parents? What does that mean for me? Like, what does this say about who my parents even are as people? This to me might have been the moment where we started to have a little bit of the illusion or the veil lift around us.
Lisa Graham (49:19)
Yes, yes,
very much. Very much. What do you mean my parents are fallible? That was a that was a a big thing, I think, probably from thirteen
Laurel Kassor (49:29)
this energy that we're still kind of talking about, it's pulled in Jupiter, so it's pulled in our belief sector, it's pulled in our ideas of expansion, it's pulled in what truth means to us. Your Jupiter is in the eighth house in Gemini, and you had already mentioned, and I was like, I'll pull this back to like the story that you had segued into about the new age, right? Like, no one wants to go as deep as you do into the beliefs, remember.
Lisa Graham (49:34)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (49:51)
House eight is part of the eighth pillar, the alchemy pillar, the Scorpio and the Pluto pillar, about going deep, excavating, digging up, getting under the surface, transforming, you know, like let's heal this shit. And so it's like this also tells us that there was inherently some kind of wounding around belief or interpretation that would be addressed, you know, with knowledge and with hard work and discipline, with through study, through.
the
study of the past, through the study of foundations, through the study of relativity is the word that wants to come through, as well as the word comparison wants to come through. Where I think this is leading is into the past life.
studies that you've done. and then of course this energy is connected directly to Saturn as well. The planet of law, authority, or well, government. Let me say that. I won't say Saturn doesn't rule law, but it does rule government. It's funny that there is a distinction, I think. and then that's where the government got involved. And it rules your siblings house as well, by the way. I wanted to mention that too.
Lisa Graham (50:46)
Mm-hmm.
I don't have a relationship with my siblings at all anymore. And I was born with a natural distrust of the government in my blood, literally, because my mother is an indigenous woman who was part of I don't I don't know a lot of people don't know this about Canada, but there was something called the residential schools. Are you familiar with that?
Laurel Kassor (50:59)
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
I am not
personally.
Lisa Graham (51:16)
So the residential schools began in the mid-1800s by the Catholic Church, and they ran right up until the last one closed in 1990. Essentially, what they did was they took indigenous children from their parents and tried to colonize them. So my mother was part of the 60s scoop, And
Laurel Kassor (51:32)
my god.
Lisa Graham (51:34)
She was there for a couple of years until she was adopted at the age of seven. So yeah. By a Scottish Baptist minister and his wife.
Laurel Kassor (51:40)
Whoa. Wow, it is crazy how our own birth charts can hold the story of our family lines as well. This is that is that is that's nuts. Okay.
Lisa Graham (51:48)
Yeah. So
so yes, I have been I have this this is like not trusting the government has been a theme for me the entire the government lies about everything.
Laurel Kassor (51:58)
it's connected directly to this Jupiter who is connecting to Mercury Venus, who is connecting to Saturn, who is connecting to Jupiter, who are all ping-ponging and lighting each other up.
Lisa Graham (52:01)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (52:09)
Here and so it's again interesting because that Saturn I mentioned that Saturn is retrograde, which means it some of its themes show up in well, yeah, it is the theme, but isn't that interesting way it chose to manifest as? And it is also in the ninth house. This has a lot to do with education as well as law, which is what I was kind of like saying earlier when the government got involved. But it connects to the fourth house of home and family,
Lisa Graham (52:31)
Yep.
Laurel Kassor (52:33)
Taking y y'all away, s dispersing you, which is another number one Jupiter thing, because Jupiter disseminates information. Well, Jupiter and Gemini s especially disseminates information. but Jupiter disseminates wisdom, right? Teachings.
Lisa Graham (52:42)
Yep.
That's interesting.
Mm.
Laurel Kassor (52:51)
But also it's in this connection to these Mercury and Venus, which are in a waning quinks, so a pillar eight.
Essence Scorpio again, Pluto again, like that undertone of the alchemy energy to Saturn, which can have a like kind of death undertone to it, remember? So it's literally like, okay, we're gonna dissolve this fucking family up. first the religious man said, and then the law man said. And and now we're putting
Lisa Graham (53:18)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (53:21)
We're taking siblings, which is also represented by Mercury. And I mentioned Saturn actually rules your third house, so siblings are an indicator of Saturn too. of being s of these separations of these dissolves. It's a dissolve. It's this Pisces energy once again showing up there. it's really fascinating in the astrology good kind of way, not in the
Lisa Graham (53:27)
Mm-hmm.
Separation, yeah.
That's fascinating.
Yeah, I I I I can you know kind of joke about it now because it's it's like I've really dealt with and come to be at peace with a lot 98.9% of the stuff, right? You know? Yeah. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (53:44)
Fun experiences kinda way.
As we're finding out, it's quite a bit of stuff that
I would say God's strongest warriors. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I know we could keep picking all of that pe all of those pieces apart. Like there's so much there. It's it's very it's very juicy, But the I kinda would
Lisa Graham (54:06)
Pretty much.
yeah. There's so much there.
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (54:23)
Instead of continuing to keep digging into the past, although I honestly could like just sit here and listen to you tell your story for a million years. I wanna hear more about the awakening.
Lisa Graham (54:31)
and I have stories.
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (54:37)
Process I wanna cause now we have a good sense of like w where your childhood set you up, what these conditions were for you to come into this consciousness. We know you were rejecting your own spirituality, or or in process of like digging and uncovering and and defining it. On the chart, I'm skipping a couple of placements, but I would say probably about 30, I don't know, six or seven. Looks like when there might have been a lot of very deep excavation around religion and spiritual.
spirituality, even if your awakening was like before then. but yeah, please t let's start connecting the dots of the present to this past
Lisa Graham (55:13)
through my my
late teens and twenties, I had a lot of what people would call prophetic dreams. I had a dream about all these frogs coming out of a pool and then found out I was pregnant with my first child.
Laurel Kassor (55:18)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa Graham (55:23)
one of my friends told me she was pregnant and in that moment I was like, I'm gonna be on the phone with you when you go into labor. I knew she was. I had a dream that one of my friends called and told me she was in labor. She's like, I'm not thinking about getting pregnant six weeks later. You jinxed me, I'm pregnant. Yeah. So I had a lot of those kinds of dreams. I also had a lot of like apocalyptic type dreams at that time because again, I was terrified at the end of the world. I knew I was gonna be here for whatever that meant.
Laurel Kassor (55:44)
I believe that too.
Lisa Graham (55:50)
but I was terrified of it. But I come to find out years later what I was experiencing was actually where I was living with my mom at the time we were going to undergoing spiritual energetic attack and the reason I felt safe at the neighbors across the road was because they were not. It it was my mother.
Laurel Kassor (56:07)
It was locational, the attack.
okay. Okay.
Lisa Graham (56:12)
Let's
just put it this way, don't play with Ouija boards, people. Just don't. Just don't. They if you don't know how to award and protect and put at b energetic boundaries, they bring in all sorts of horrible things, and that's what my mother did. So that happened. My twenties, you know, I did the normal things. I I worked at a bank, I got married, I had two kids. and
Laurel Kassor (56:15)
Haven't touched one in a wall, wow, wow, wow.
Lisa Graham (56:33)
This is where it starts getting weird. Around 2007, I encountered the energy of who I later found out was what people would call a twin flame. Now, New Age new age, whatever aside.
I have massive soul history with this person. We've had I've had to clean up so much karma and energy around that connection. Whatever. But that is what, that was around 2007. That is what began to facilitate my awakening. But instead of going towards the healing, what did Lanna do? She turned to booze.
I hated my life. my husband at the time was not supportive. it was like having another child. and he was going through stuff too. Like he had been injured, he had gone back to college and through, you know, workers' comp and things like that. So like we had a lot of stuff going on in the home and
And then I bought a restaurant because I thought, you know, that's what I needed to do. I knew when I was twelve years old. I knew when I was twelve years old when my mom and my stepdad bought this piece of crap run down old building that used to be a restaurant and turned it into a race shop. Yeah, I know, right? I knew then I was going to have a restaurant.
Laurel Kassor (57:23)
my gosh.
Can I just pause the story just for a super brief insert? You have Ceres in Capricorn in the second house. Pillar two, the value pillar of Ceres and the second house featuring it. food. Huh food, food. They represent food and they represent ownership. Like you have the ownership and the possession and the food and the sustainability and also the own and the boss, the boss, Capricorn energy, the business energy tapped in there too.
Lisa Graham (57:52)
And I am an excellent
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (58:06)
so that's just that's just like one of those like, wow, or sometimes it really is that literal. Anyway, continue.
Lisa Graham (58:12)
It y it it
and when it comes to me, like it is, it is that literal.
Laurel Kassor (58:16)
It's
that fucking literal like it's a literally the simulation just projecting that code for us to see it.
Lisa Graham (58:23)
Literally, literally.
And so I did that for about eight years. And during those eight years, that's when I found the spirituals church. That's when I started doing the evidentiary mediumship. That's when Neptune went into Pisces. And my life just fell apart.
Laurel Kassor (58:36)
A big time.
massive time for you. my god, that transit. I'm just now like wow, yeah. It's huge.
Lisa Graham (58:43)
And that's when my 14 years
of hell began. And I kid you not. I I left my first marriage. I lost custody of my children because I just didn't have any money. Like I did not have any money. Thankfully, I met someone and we, you know, he's supported me since then. And I'm very, very, very, very grateful for him.
but this is when the real work began. When I left that marriage. My father passed away in twenty twelve. and
Laurel Kassor (59:03)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Lisa Graham (59:08)
I didn't understand it probably until the last couple of years. But it literally just became 14 years of meandering. And that sounds silly, but that was Neptune and Pisces, right?
Laurel Kassor (59:19)
Yeah, I was literally
just I didn't want to interrupt but like that's the pff
Lisa Graham (59:21)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (59:23)
The very realistic way to describe Neptune and Pisces. Like it really was, especially I think for you, as it would have been hitting four personal planets in an extraordinarily sensitive house, activating all of the aspects associated with those planets, while also Neptune itself just making those aspects too. there's a lot of layers. astrology is always very multifaceted.
Lisa Graham (59:38)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Exactly.
Laurel Kassor (59:51)
But when you the these far-out planets, these outer planets, man, they really, really bring you into the difficult to put into word sections of reality.
Lisa Graham (1:00:02)
Yes,
yes. And so I did. I spent that period from about 2012 to I want to say gosh, even up until about two years ago. because Saturn in Pisces wasn't nice for me either. but yeah, meandering, learning,
growing. I mean, this is when I took all of like I my three rate Reiki certifications, my past life regression certification, my spiritual coaching certification. Like this is when I was like, I have to learn, I have to get all of these certifications, I have to do all of these things. you know, and then I just started experimenting. But a lot of it was out in the ether. It was all about like what can I gain from out here?
Laurel Kassor (1:00:41)
Mm-hmm,
mm-hmm.
Lisa Graham (1:00:42)
And then
wanna say was that early twenty tw that was that was early twenty twenty one because that's when the whole twin flame thing came back around for me. Because I ignored it.
I when I hit that point in twenty twenty one and that energy came back around and was like, you have to acknowledge this and if you don't acknowledge it, you're gonna hate yourself.
And like it literally it forced me, it forced me to look at my relationship to myself, my relationship to my current partner, to my children who, you know, I don't even have a relationship with my children anymore. And not because I I don't want to, but because they're literally playing out what I did in their late teens, early twenties. I stopped I I left home, I stopped talking to my mom, and I made the effort for a few years, and then I had my first child and things went down and
Basically, it was like, do I want to put my children through what I went through? No. Sorry, door shut. And I'm very, very good at that. Door shut, walk away, we're done. Like, done. And I have not spoken to my mother. It will be 26 years this Christmas. So. And you know what? I used to be like, I miss my mom, I miss my mom, I miss my mom. But now I'm like, I am my own mom.
Laurel Kassor (1:01:32)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa Graham (1:01:45)
I can feed my own needs when it comes to those things. And I have people in my life that that take care of me. And I'm so, so, so, so grateful for them. Because honestly, I don't wanna I don't wanna deal with the real world. I mean I do when I have to, but I don't want to. This is why I'm so grateful that I get that I get to write stories and share them with people.
Laurel Kassor (1:02:05)
Yes,
perfect segue into that part of your work because this whole basically this whole time in the back of my head, this is all
Been kind of also attached to the same aspect with with Mercury, Venus, and Pisces in the fourth house, square Jupiter. So asking to be structured into something real and tangible and lasting, which is that Pillar 10 undertone to the closing square, but also making this like if you don't find a fucking structure for this channel, you're gonna explode, which is the kind of part to Saturn in the ninth house. That is where this like.
Lisa Graham (1:02:19)
Neptune. I mean, yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yes, yes, yep, yep.
Yes. Yes. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (1:02:46)
back around into making and this loops into the this elusive mysterious relationship
because
Lisa Graham (1:02:57)
part part of it too was because I said because I know I am so much about like the potential of a person. Because that's my first husband, that's what I fell for, right? It was his potential.
Laurel Kassor (1:03:03)
Mm-hmm.
It's a very common
thing. It's a very common thing for some of this particular energy. Yes.
Lisa Graham (1:03:10)
Yeah.
Yes. And
and and and I've and I've said this, there's nothing that Gen X regrets more than their first marriages. So
Laurel Kassor (1:03:18)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa Graham (1:03:19)
I should've kept walking,
but I didn't because, you know, karma. And one of the things I said when I stepped into this whole journey with this whole, you know, mirror, twin flame, whatever the heck you want to call this, because I just I I think the new age representation of it is is i the words do not do it justice for
Laurel Kassor (1:03:29)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa Graham (1:03:36)
what I have been through.
And so yeah, I had no choice but to evolve. It was evolve or die. And
I wasn't willing to do that.
So like I said, I all this time I have been doing Reiki sessions, doing spiritual coaching, tarot, light language journeys, you know, group journeys, things like that. Like all this kind of stuff for people. And
ha had a lot I had, you know, I was doing quite well. And then it was like, I'm burning out, I can't do this anymore. What am I supposed to do? especially when Saturn went into Pisces. All these past life memories started just coming up. And not nice ones either. Like specifically that first one was Lanna. I was the result of a a of a hybrid experiment in the the Rigel star system.
Laurel Kassor (1:04:03)
Mm.
Lisa Graham (1:04:15)
And for me, the big pieces that come through are the relationships and specifically the relationship with this one person, right? So that's been very instrumental in healing that karma and healing that and and being able to work with that. and then it was like
Laurel Kassor (1:04:23)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Lisa Graham (1:04:31)
about a year ago I I was just like, What do I do now? I heard shut down your website and now you get two things. You get to write and you get to have your community,
And you know how it is when you're you're doing something in your business and you're like
And then and then and all you hear is be patient, just wait. yeah. And I'm like, maybe I should just shut this community down because I'm not really doing anything with it. And I'm no, no, keep it up, keep it up, keep it up. Okay.
Laurel Kassor (1:04:47)
Just trust us. Trust us dude. Trust us dude. Yeah.
think there's something really interesting form formulating there. I think that there's a lot. There's a lot that comes through. a lot comes through. Like there's just a lot flowing. So
Let me I guess let me start by saying it makes sense totally. that Saturn moving through the part of your life that has to do with your foundations and how and rest and the past, like quite literally your past. And because that part of your awareness has number one been heavily fucking transited, specia over the over the last specifically like three but obviously 14 years, a lot of activity.
Lisa Graham (1:05:13)
yeah.
Yeah. Yes.
yes.
Laurel Kassor (1:05:37)
down there and also that area is multi-dimensional. that is part of pillar twelve, part of how you are capable of being exposed and experiencing here in this third dimension multidimensional experiences, you know.
Lisa Graham (1:05:51)
Yeah. And that was the big
thing that I came to terms with right before Saturn went into Pisces was, okay, this is me here, but this is also me here, right? Like they don't have to be separate. They can be layered. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (1:05:56)
Yes.
Hundred
percent. Absolutely.
think that this is it's going slowly as there's been a lot of recent integration too. Because you do have your Mercury and your Venus at the late parts of Pisces. So like just even in the last six, seven months within the last year, there's been a lot that has been kind of like congealing, I would say, taking shape, taping taking form. And that's part of Saturn too, by the way. Saturn moving out of that part of your chart into the fifth house.
Lisa Graham (1:06:20)
yeah. Yeah. It's been a lot. Yeah. Yep.
And that makes sense because it's been a lot of like learning instead of react to look at things with curiosity. Yeah. A ton of that, especially the last year.
Laurel Kassor (1:06:40)
Mm, mm, mm.
Ugh, and yeah, I mean duh, like you're yes, of course, because your Jupiter is in the lay parts of Gemini. And so this anything that was doing anything, remember, one part of the chart gets l touched, the whole bitch goes off like a pinball machine. Okay, she's like ding ding ding little dong. So the this energy, especially like this translation of of shutting down that that feature, because that's all it was almost. It was like a a fractal, it was one of the many dimensions that the business.
Lisa Graham (1:06:57)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (1:07:12)
this part to switch into this other mode feels like it's part of this integration
Lisa Graham (1:07:19)
Well and it was
interesting because at the time it felt like cutting an arm off. it was my whole entire my whole entire identity. What do you mean I have to give this up? And then I realized like, wait a second.
Laurel Kassor (1:07:22)
I'm sure it did because this is Pisces, so it's sacrifice. I mean there is an element of sacrifice, martyrdom.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
new emerging from that energy. And it had to do with creation, because your Sun was involved throughout this. We're speaking in a large time period, but this connects it back to and the your past where the veil lifted up on religion. This time it lifted up on the identity you had formed around your business. and now it's lifted up to reveal this platform for the channeling.
to happen, which brings us back to like again this conjunction of these connections here. Jupiter is a publishing planet. Gemini is a riding sign. Mercury Mercury is a writing planet. Venus has to do with romance. Pisces has to do with a mas
Imagination and Saturn up there in connection to all this energy in the ninth house. That's a publishing house. Saturn has to do with authority and structure and hard work and discipline. And so we are seeing that this energy has shifted into a new shape, which is the writing. Because this is
Lisa Graham (1:08:13)
Ha ha
Laurel Kassor (1:08:34)
And source back to like the very beginning of this conversation. I don't know where it comes from. It comes from you channeling all of this practice that you have being in the other realms or being in the other dimensions or being conscious of these other spaces and these past lives and everything. So I feel like part of what is emerging here is.
Going back a little bit to the to the Pluto in Libra, part of the 11th house, which is the platform in the community, which are words I associate with the 11th house and with Uranus, who is in the 12th house for you, and with Aquarius energy and the waning sextile. part of me almost wonders if this energy isn't teeing up an opportunity to
to teach processing like relational wounds through creative writing or through a r writing in of some sort.
Lisa Graham (1:09:25)
Well, and it's funny that you say
that because that was kind of one of the things I wanted to like offer through the one platform was to have like a monthly writer's group where we come together and we do like a journey together and then they can they can write what whatever kind of comes from that. because that's it it actually started when I was doing like past life readings for people.
Laurel Kassor (1:09:46)
Make sense, yes,
keep going. Makes sense total sense.
Lisa Graham (1:09:47)
And I started just like
I was like, there's a story that comes out when we do this. So I started just re like voice recording them for the clients and and giving them the voice recording. but it never went anywhere, right? Because it it people were like, this is too weird. And because granted this was like three or four years ago, right? When people were still kinda in about past lives and things like that, right? And so
I just thought, well, maybe it's just not what I'm supposed to do, or maybe I'm doing it wrong, or it because those are the thoughts that come up when you have something that doesn't work in the context of a business. And I had to really kind of step back and go like, no, there's there's there must be another way. And again, it just kind of evolved on its own as I just I it started, it really started as a whim, like everything in my life. What if I try this?
And here we are a year later with all of the things that I have published on that platform, so
Laurel Kassor (1:10:41)
What if is like a Pisces Pillar Twelves motto. One of the things though that popped up for me, how this connects back to your childhood that you shared with us, and how this is a development off of those some of those earlier patterns. when you had to testify in court, you had to tell a story.
Lisa Graham (1:11:00)
I did.
Laurel Kassor (1:11:01)
to tell a story and nobody believed it at that time, right? We've seen that that is a pattern that's played out across your life, it seems, as well. Is is telling your story, sharing your stories that you have sourced from yourself, that from source and not being believed or being denied, which is cla classic fucking Saturn shit. and how
Lisa Graham (1:11:09)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (1:11:22)
This writing journey is an extension off of healing or resolving some of the patterning.
From that period of time and you kind of telling your various many multidimensional stories in formats and in shapes where they can be accepted, turned into something successful, scaffolded into authority, like expressed, because of course your Saturn's in Leo. So expressing that you have, you mentioned how important integrity it is and how what an important pillar, right?
Lisa Graham (1:11:42)
Yes.
Very much.
Laurel Kassor (1:11:54)
Like so
expressing that like no no no I know how like excuse me guys I I do know how this sounds and also I'm not afraid to express with certainty and publish and disseminate the knowledge. Yeah.
Lisa Graham (1:12:03)
Yeah. And and that is literally like my whole entire like
yes, I know this sounds crazy, but it's not because this is my lived because it's not and that's the thing, like so many people associate psychic ability with being crazy, and it's not. There are so many people out there and this is just my own very deeply held belief because I went through it.
Laurel Kassor (1:12:11)
Finger quotes, finger quotes.
Lisa Graham (1:12:26)
High functioning depression, antidepressants, the whole bit, the mental breakdown, the whole bit back in I'm gonna say that was probably right around like the moment Neptune went into Pisces. This happened. Somebody asked me if I had Asiago cheese and I had a meltdown, right? Like, I didn't have it.
Right? yeah, yeah, no, that's been that's definitely been but you know, and so I've been there and I fully believe like a big large part of what we deem mental illness is spiritual awakening that is going unrecognized.
Laurel Kassor (1:13:02)
And un scaffolded. Like it needs some structure to it, boundaries, guidance.
Lisa Graham (1:13:03)
And unsupported. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Cause how many people do we see
go into psychosis and and that sort of thing? And you know, that was that was a real fear for me. A real fear.
Laurel Kassor (1:13:11)
So many. It's a real thing.
Lisa Graham (1:13:17)
to see that and but even to see in my own family the substance abuse and the depression and all of those things and be like how can I not do that right? How can I not do that? I mean this is I'm the person who I decided I wanted to stop drinking because I did. Like I was your your party girl I did for for like three years. That's all I did. My my everything in my life suffered because of it.
And I just quit cold turkey because I decided I was done. So I'm the wrong person to turn to for like substance abuse advice because when I decide I'm done with something, I am just done with it.
Laurel Kassor (1:13:50)
So fascinating. And so I I don't know what we were just saying because my apparently I have a fishers brain right now.
Lisa Graham (1:13:58)
Sorry.
Laurel Kassor (1:13:59)
No, I I I
swear to god I forget that I I know I'm an Oracle, I claim it, blah blah blah, but I forget a lot too. You know?
Lisa Graham (1:14:07)
Well and that is actually that is
actually how you know that you are truthfully channeling, that you gotta record this stuff, because otherwise you're like, What did I just say? Because I have no idea. That's why I recorded my client sessions, that's why I I you know I write everything down. Because if I don't, I will forget. And like ask any of my clients when you come out of a session with me, like there's copious notes because I'm like, wait, I said I was gonna send them that and that and that and that.
Laurel Kassor (1:14:18)
Literally no idea. It happens all the time, but I record everything.
Mm-hmm.
Lisa Graham (1:14:34)
you know, resource or whatever so that they can do their homework because I was very big on homework when I was doing coaching.
Laurel Kassor (1:14:41)
Not Saturn and Leo in the ninth house being like, you gotta do your learning. There are rules to this thing. You gotta show up and you gotta work, baby. Right?
Lisa Graham (1:14:43)
Not at all.
Imagine that.
Because people think, and it still think, even after we've been doing this spiritual energetic journey for, you know, 35, 40 years on the physical plane, it's been very prevalent. They still think it's just all kumbaya and candles. And let me tell you, it is not. Mostly it sucks. Exactly. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (1:15:08)
No, mostly it sucks. Like r respectfully and with a lot of love and wisdom. Sometimes it when it sucks, it sucks.
A lot of it is is messy. And I think that that's a really good word for a lot of this energy in general. There's a there's a messiness, and I think that that's one of the things that your writing allows you to do is
Lisa Graham (1:15:20)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Well
Here, look at
how messy it really was. The you know, the crazy
sex stuff, the blood magic, the the energy, the p the the people who died, the people who lived. So many themes. And like, yeah, is my Patreon 18 plus? Absolutely. Do you have to pay to get in to look at the spicy content? Yes, because I am not gonna be putting this out there and have children looking at it.
I again this is one of these soap boxes I would stand on, you know, hills I would die on. Like this kind of content is not for children. Not at all. Exactly. Mm hmm. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (1:16:04)
Mm-hmm. Well, it's it's meant to help you process. I mean, that is a l that is it's processing content. It's like one of the
most amazing things I think about
Looking at the charts of authors and writers is that they will describe the book that they're writing and it will be very symbolically present in the chart because it's everything exists in there already, and it's just a yet another fractal lens of how this energy can come together. And that's part of what makes the Pillar 12, Pisces, Neptune, 12th house shit indispensable to the storytelling because it allows.
Lisa Graham (1:16:25)
yeah.
Laurel Kassor (1:16:42)
You to channel in truly channel in from these other source spaces.
Lisa Graham (1:16:47)
Yeah. Well I I mean like my big novella that I just
did, that in and and and that's part of it too, like in the process, like I am literally processing the energy of this past life as I'm writing. So it might be weeks before something else starts coming out. I mean something else has started coming out and I can't wait to share because this one's gonna be it's gonna be fun.
Laurel Kassor (1:17:08)
Can you tell us anything about
this novella?
Lisa Graham (1:17:10)
So
my novella that is actually published on my Patreon that people can go and read, it's called Jalea. is essentially based on a past life. And don't get me wrong, there is some fictional license I take with some of it because, you know, there's exactly, yeah.
Laurel Kassor (1:17:14)
Okay.
Girl, no one can fact check you on your past life.
Lisa Graham (1:17:25)
well you need continuity and you need but anyway, essentially I was I was a spy who was shoved into this job as a sex worker because they wanted us to s to spy on these super soldiers they created in the Orion Wars. And I ended up falling for one and we ended up
getting married and and and things ensued and I'll I'll leave the rest of it as a cliffhanger because it it did not have a happy ending. Think Romeo and Juliet, right? Like if you thought Romeo and Juliet was a romance, you shouldn't read this because it was not. It was a tragedy. So so yeah that but the current one I'm working on is actually a past life where
Laurel Kassor (1:17:54)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lisa Graham (1:18:04)
I met. It's and and and the major relationship is is around this same person that I'm I've had this soul history with.
he was an assassin somewhere like a lot of these are off-planet lives. Like I haven't lived here very much. I've I lived in other star systems. I don't know the exact star system this one takes place in, but I know it was a place where other like it was like kind of all the cultures kind of came together, like think Babylon 5 kind of idea. and we were from different backgrounds, different cultures, and he was an assassin and his name was Mercy.
Laurel Kassor (1:18:15)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
That's funny. I like to joke that the universe's favorite genre is a divine comedy. Yeah.
Lisa Graham (1:18:38)
So yeah.
Right?
what I found fascinating about it as the memory started kind of coming through, was that I didn't remember the first part of my life. And I'm gett been getting bits and pieces of it that
Laurel Kassor (1:18:51)
Mm.
Lisa Graham (1:18:54)
There was a reason for it, but I don't again, it's that abandonment wound coming back up to be, to be healed because I was abandoned and then I was kicked out of the orphanage and because I I I did I did things like I was not a good kid in that life.
Laurel Kassor (1:19:07)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa Graham (1:19:08)
you know, I was the one who who hurt people with this stuff. And and that's why I'm so like very particular about who I connect with now, who I you know, so that's why I tell people, just know if we are connecting, it's because I I see you. Yes.
Laurel Kassor (1:19:11)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
You are quite literally a seer. you are
indeedly do a seer. advice would you give to anyone who is wanting to use
their past life experiences or explore their past life experiences as a means of processing current life trauma.
Lisa Graham (1:19:40)
so my biggest thing is believe yourself when those memories start coming through. Because for a lot of people, and I'm feeling especially with what just moved? One of the big planets just moved and
Laurel Kassor (1:19:50)
Uranus
moved into Gemini in the end of April. Chiron just moved into Taurus a few days ago. Chiron? Mm-hmm. Yeah, you're about to have your Chiron return. Like you're it you're in it already. It's begun. Yeah, I'm sure. I bet he has. He's like, do it better. Do it better. Do it again and do it better.
Lisa Graham (1:19:56)
Chiron and Taur Chiron and Taurus.
Yeah, I know. Yeah, I know. I know. It's it's made itself known. Yeah.
body image has really been hitting hard
the last week or so. anyway, I really felt with Kyron and Taurus that especially Gen X people who have displacement, who were born with displacement, for some reason I felt like it was gonna bring up those past lives for them. And they're gonna have dreams, they're gonna have just weird associations with history, maybe even things out in space. they're gonna have weird associations with
the things that feel like a memory that they're not really sure. What I would say is believe yourself. Trust yourself. If it here, if it feels like a yes, it's yes. It's you.
Laurel Kassor (1:20:44)
Right in the heart chakra?
Lisa Graham (1:20:45)
Yeah, very much.
Laurel Kassor (1:20:46)
Yeah.
Lisa Graham (1:20:47)
yeah. I'm very much about like when I teach people how to make a good decision for themselves and what that decision they they really want, we go into the heart and we we go in there and explore. you know, especially when we're working with like Akashic Records, Halls of Amenti, that kind of stuff. find a good practitioner.
I might even open things back up again because I don't know, I've been kind of feeling a bit called to do a little bit more. Because I love working in the halls of a mentee, which is like the big Akashic Records. It's not just the the little earth part, it's everything. but anyway, trust yourself, believe yourself.
Yes, sometimes it can feel like, I'm just imagining it, but know that when you're feeling what you are feeling is going to be a big part of that. Because so many times people they dissociate from the feeling. They don't they don't let themselves experience the feeling, and so then they don't believe it, right? Because the I how can it be that for me has been my biggest tell.
How do I feel about this? And again, because we are so cut off from feeling on purpose, let's go on autopilot. Like I said, I live my first half of my life on autopilot pretty much. so believe yourself, let yourself feel it, and then find an outlet. Because yeah, writing is great, but writing's not for everybody. So maybe you paint, maybe you draw, maybe you just journal.
that free flow consciousness writing helps a lot. Like that is Yeah, yeah, there's a slight difference between free flow and automatic. because
Laurel Kassor (1:22:05)
Like automatic writing, I think it's called
Okay. Okay. I'm learning ev
things every day.
Lisa Graham (1:22:15)
Free flow is your own consciousness. Automatic tends to be more of the channeling. So it might be a guide, it might be a spirit or you know, whatever, right? I remember the first time I ever did automatic writing, and I remember I wrote no, no, no, no, no, no, really tiny letters across the page, and I was like, what the heck? What did I what why would I write this? Because I was just kind of in the mood, like in the moment, the there was a trans channel medium there, and like this is back when before I knew any of this stuff, right? And and my friend was like, my god, you did automatic writing.
And was like, cool. Like I just did the things. I didn't I didn't know what they were. I didn't know any until after the fact. Like when I first started using light language with my hands, I didn't know what it was. And my friend was like, my god, that's light language. And I was like, I thought I was just moving energy. I had no idea. None.
Laurel Kassor (1:22:49)
Yeah.
Lisa Graham (1:23:03)
and then I had to get real comfortable with my voice, right? And I would say that would probably be another big piece of it. Get real comfortable with your voice and your sacral, because your your throat and sacral are connected, especially in women. The the the larynx and the cervix cervix, sorry, look exactly the same, top down. Exactly the same. Yes. they're very connected. So if you are unable to voice, you're not gonna be able to create. And you're not gonna be able to process.
Laurel Kassor (1:23:18)
Interesting.
Lisa Graham (1:23:27)
So yeah, you're f as I'm kind of going, hey, there's the pillars of my work. Throat, sacral, then process.
Laurel Kassor (1:23:34)
Mmm. so juicy. Thank you for sharing that. I feel like that is really useful for folks to incorporate into the into that process.
Lisa Graham (1:23:40)
and absolutely and and and
I'm not like necessarily one to like gatekeep this kind of information because people need to understand not just their physical body, but those other bodies that are part of you, the electromagnetic body. And science is proving every day, which this is where I get to bring it back to practicality.
Laurel Kassor (1:23:45)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Lisa Graham (1:24:02)
proving every day that we are not just this meat suit that we are so much more. And being able to experience that, it's the coolest thing of all.
Laurel Kassor (1:24:06)
Mm-hmm.
It's the coolest fucking thing Wow. my gosh. I think that there's a big bright future ahead for this platform you're creating and this community that you're creating.
I really think that there's something transformative and I I didn't say it earlier, so just want to t to touch on it right now. Your north node in Libra is in the eleventh house. So like
Lisa Graham (1:24:32)
Yeah. Community. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (1:24:33)
so much of what you're here to take in and develop and and learn and gear towards is being able to share and relate these perspectives with the larger collective and other people
who understand, who really get, who you don't have to prove anything to, but you know, there's a deep healing quality to this container that I think you're building here.
Lisa Graham (1:24:47)
Yeah. Yeah.
I've always said,
I'm not here to perform this shit for you. I'm here to teach you how to do it yourself. That's why I that's why I teach Kundalini Reiki because that is the number one modality that completely transformed not only my spiritual journey, but
the way I related my physical and my spiritual journey to each other. it has been the thing.
Laurel Kassor (1:25:22)
that. I love that. Lanna, thank you so much for being so generous with with your stories, with your time, with your insight. This has been a fabulous. So where can the people find you, my friend?
Lisa Graham (1:25:38)
They can find me in a couple of different places. Obviously Threads, that's where you and I met. I I'm quite pleased with that platform. it's been a lot of fun. so threads, Instagram, obviously, because they're linked.
Laurel Kassor (1:25:43)
We love threads in this house.
Lisa Graham (1:25:52)
And also on my Patreon, which you can find all the links for those in my threads and my Instagram, Moon over Pisces Lanna Grace. and again, Moon over Pisces, I chose that because my moon is in Pisces. I mean it it was a it was a given. When I found that I found those first four major placements and I was like, that and it was just that's that's the name.
Laurel Kassor (1:26:03)
for sure. I mean it checks out.
And then
again, it's also like those in contact to Neptune as well. It just brings it in even more. Mm-hmm.
Lisa Graham (1:26:19)
Exactly. Exactly. So my Patreon
where you can find the writing. it's eight dollars a month, but I'm pretty sure it's eight dollars Canadian. So yeah. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (1:26:29)
Don't undersell yourself, Queen. Your writing is
worth it.
Lisa Graham (1:26:33)
It's
worth it. It's absolutely worth it. I have over 40 different pieces posted there. There's stuff that's just plain old romance, just for the fun, little short stories. there are stories from my time in the Rigel Star system, my time in the Bellatrix Star system. Bellatrix was a fascinating one because we were actually trying to change a whole entire political system, and it is where vampires come from. But that's a whole nother fun thing that we can play with. and there's a few others I can't remember. And obviously, my little novella Jalea that I wrote, it's there in three parts for
Laurel Kassor (1:26:55)
Wow.
Lisa Graham (1:27:00)
people to to look at. Those are very dark romance themes though. And there is sexuality in them. So if that's not your thing, my writing won't be for you. But
Laurel Kassor (1:27:12)
hey no remember
though the north node moving towards the polarization like if you can't hang no problem but bye
Lisa Graham (1:27:16)
Hey.
Yep, exactly. And and it's so funny because I think about how like seven, eight years ago I would have been like, my god, they don't like me. But now I'm like, I like me, so that's all that matters. Right? And then the other place people can find me, and this is more mainstream spirituality.
Laurel Kassor (1:27:29)
Ugh that's the stuff. Amazing.
Lisa Graham (1:27:37)
I have a community on skool It is for seekers,
right now there are a few free resources in there. It is a free community to to join on school. I called it awakening moons.
Laurel Kassor (1:27:47)
Okay.
Lisa Graham (1:27:48)
Because the whole idea is that I wanted to give people a place they could come and not be afraid to say the cringy thing.
Laurel Kassor (1:27:55)
Mm.
Lisa Graham (1:27:55)
Not be afraid
to say what they're thinking. you know, obviously I I do like to keep things like politics out of it, because that's not what it's about. It's a place for people to come to learn to understand their energy, to understand how to work with their own energy and and how to you know access themselves. Because that's literally what our energy is. It's about accessing beyond the mental.
I've been in the process of putting up because I've taught Kundalini Reiki for like four years, five years, something like that. so I've taught it. So I'm putting that course up it will be a paid course, but again, there will still be some free resources up there. I'm also gonna put up some Akashic Records learning, my energy.
course that I've developed over the course of years because I have very specific energy protocols that I do daily, sometimes multiple times a day, because otherwise I end up all tangled up in other people's. Like, love ya, but when we're done this call, guess what I'm gonna go do?
Laurel Kassor (1:28:46)
You got a cord cut, Queen.
You got a cord cut. Yep, yep, yep. Mhm.
Lisa Graham (1:28:48)
Yep. Exactly. Exactly.
And so I have a whole entire course where I teach people that. and a few other little things. there's gonna be resources. But the whole point is that I want it to be a place people can come and converse and feel accepted because it goes back to why I started being a spiritual coach in the first place, because I want to give people the space I couldn't find when I started this back in the Oz. Right? Back in back in the day as they say.
gosh, I'm starting to sound like my parents.
really obvious.
Laurel Kassor (1:29:17)
it is what it is. I so appreciate you.
Being here, thank you again so much, y'all. Go follow Lanna at Moonover Pisces.
And don't forget to stay in orbit by subscribing, leave a comment to let me know what's landing for you, and of course, sprinkle some stardust by sharing this podcast with the Astro Hoes in your life.
You can find me at soularcastrology.com, on threads at astro underscore Aries, or on Instagram at soularc underscore astrology. Until next
Next time seekers ad Astra.
