EP12 Voicing the Invisible: Trusting Your Voice Enough to Be Seen with Kelsey Lewis

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EP12 Voicing the Invisible: Trusting Your Voice Enough to Be Seen with Kelsey Lewis

The way you learn to use your voice as a child can shape everything - confidence, visibility, perfectionism, even the career you build.

Laurel Kassor and Kelsey Lewis trace the hidden moments that taught Kelsey when it felt safe to speak, when it felt risky to be seen, and how those early patterns later showed up in teaching, wellness, podcasting, and personal reinvention.

Kelsey - a former teacher, intuitive coach, tarot reader, and co-host of Tarot Tales - shares the lived experiences behind her transformation: the seven years she spent teaching, the Saturn return that blew her life open, and the moment she realized her voice, body, and presence were all connected to a deeper pattern of self-trust. Laurel uses Kelsey’s chart to reveal why her story keeps circling back to communication, belonging, and the tension between being an individual and being part of a collective.

You'll discover:

• Why Mercury in Cancer can make voice, care, and safety inseparable

• How a childhood attachment pattern can echo into adulthood as fear of being unheard

• What a Leo Sun in the fifth house reveals about visibility, creativity, and being celebrated

• Why a sun-moon opposition can create a lifelong dance between self-expression and collective awareness

• How Chiron and Pluto show up in moments of embarrassment, pressure, reinvention, and purpose

What starts as an astrology reading becomes a powerful story about identity, visibility, and the strange way childhood moments can become the blueprint for adulthood. If you’ve ever wondered why certain situations still hit a nerve - public speaking, being judged, changing paths, or finally being seen - this conversation will hit home.

Perfect for astrology lovers, former teachers, creative entrepreneurs, anyone navigating reinvention, and listeners who want a deeper understanding of how early emotional patterns shape the life you build next.

Chapter Timestamps

00:00 Overcoming Pre-Recording Nerves

05:12 Childhood Development and Early Experiences

18:53 Navigating Childhood and Family Dynamics

28:22 Balancing Individuality and Collective Awareness

35:58 The Role of Chiron in Personal Growth

48:08 Navigating Authority and Performance Anxiety

57:15 Transformation Through Action and Self-Discovery

01:02:50 The Influence of Jupiter in Relationships

01:09:51 Podcasting: A New Era of Visibility

01:18:45 Crisis of Purpose in Higher Education

01:26:59 The Journey of Self-Discovery and Expression

ABOUT KELSEY LEWIS
Kelsey Lewis is an intuitive coach, tarot and oracle reader, and the founder of Soul Light Affirmations, where she helps people navigate personal growth and life transitions with grounded, practical tools. She's also co-host of the podcast Tarot Tales alongside Heather Schultz.
soullightaffirmations.com

RESOURCES & LINKS MENTIONED

• Tarot Tales podcast (co-hosted with Heather Schultz) — new episodes every Friday, everywhere you listen

• Live Tarot Tales recordings — Wednesdays, 5PM EST on YouTube

• Bookings/readings: soullightaffirmations.com

• Instagram: @soullightaffirmations
  

📲 Find Laurel:
Instagram: @soularc_astrology
Threads: @astro_aries
💫 Work with Laurel → soularcastrology.com/links
🌀 Join The Kindred → soularcastrology.com/thekindred

Laurel Kassor (00:11)

Welcome to Orbit Seekers. This is episode 12 of Made for This with Laurel Casser, the podcast where soul-led practitioners, educators, and creatives come together to connect the constellations of how astrology turns from abstract insight to real-world impact when you follow your soul's arc.

I'm Laurel Kassor your Astro Oracle host and founder of Soul A.R.C Astrology. And today I have the sweetest peapod in the world with me, Kelsey Lewis. Kelsey is a Leo Sun, Aquarius moon, and Cancer Rising. And she is the radiant light and intuitive coach behind Soul Light affirmations. And on top of that, she is the co-host of the Hit Pod Tarot. Kelsey helps people navigate personal growth, life transitions, and reach their wellness goals with practical tools.

And the type of grounded spirituality that makes you feel like things can actually change. After walking away from a seven-year teaching career, Kelsey found herself in the middle of her own unraveling and built an entire practice out of what she found on the other side. Kelsey, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm so excited to have you.

Kelsey (01:16)

Thank you for having me, Laurel. It is an absolute honor to be here. Super excited. I've

Laurel Kassor (01:22)

Stop, you're making me blush, girl. You're making me blush.

Kelsey (01:27)

been looking forward to this for weeks.

Laurel Kassor (01:29)

I

would love to hear a little bit more about the work you do now. And a little

Kelsey (01:31)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (01:32)

bit more about just like who you help and how you help them.

Kelsey (01:35)

Okay, well, as you mentioned, I'm a former teacher, I've found myself on a pretty unexpected path after my Saturday return completely reshaped my life, it broke apart, and it was built back up. But I guess to fast forward a little bit, these days, I work in the wellness space, I co host the podcast, Tarot Tales, I create spiritual and personal development content through my platform.

which is called Soul Light Affirmations and that's kind of my business right now and I offer tarot oracle readings and guidance. But I guess like a lot about my journey or a lot of my journey has been learning to trust myself, to reconnect

Laurel Kassor (02:12)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (02:13)

with my intuition, to help build a life that actually feels authentic rather than one that looks successful from the outside. Yeah,

Laurel Kassor (02:21)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (02:22)

so I've also navigated my own experiences with,

career reinvention, what else is like, kind of like my own experiences with spirituality and with learning to trust myself and finding confidence in my voice after years of kind of seeking external validation. So

Laurel Kassor (02:39)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (02:40)

I'm really fascinated by astrology as a tool for self-awareness and conscious creation. So I'm super excited to explore my chart today through the lens of Soul A.R.C.

I'm

Laurel Kassor (02:51)

Soul

A.R.C. I'm super excited to get into it with you. I already, when I was obviously doing my little bit of prep before you joined me, I was looking and I like to try to pick out like at least for myself, like, okay, these are major themes to be on the lookout for that I'm seeing in the chart already. And you literally just named one of them specifically around your voice. And that actually is a perfect segue about finding your voice and trusting your voice, which

Kelsey (03:14)

Hehehe.

Laurel Kassor (03:15)

is a perfect segue into the method we use to kind.

of head back into that origin story of yours so we can understand why the hell you are made to do this work that you do and share your messages which are of both metaphysical and physical value and orientation. I really feel like you're someone who ha is able to connect the my the mind body and spirit you know what I mean like obviously the yeah

Kelsey (03:44)

the whole human. It's holistic.

Laurel Kassor (03:47)

It is it is holistic I feel like what your chart at least initially was is kind of indicating

Up front is this journey between taking the knowledge and the data and the wisdom of above and really anchoring it into the below.

Kelsey (04:04)

been my life's journey is trying

Laurel Kassor (04:06)

Okay.

Kelsey (04:08)

to balance those things, all parts of being human, right? And I think

Laurel Kassor (04:11)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (04:13)

when I first started out, I was a lot of spirit, a lot of mind,

Laurel Kassor (04:17)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (04:18)

I was in my head a lot, but I was forgetting to anchor down into the earth. And that was part of my growth was, and I'm still working on it, but I'm helping others do the same thing. That's kind of like as I learn,

I'm moving forward and trying.

Laurel Kassor (04:34)

That's all we can ever do.

Kelsey (04:33)

my best.

Laurel Kassor (04:35)

I think many, many, many of us who are on these pathways understand you don't you don't get off the ride early. You know what I mean? Like you don't stop growing. The the lessons don't stop coming and the sooner we make peace with that,

we never hit a a final form while we're in a physical form and understand that we just keep trying. We just keep showing up and and doing the same patterns.

Until we're very effective with them. And then we keep trying to be more effective and efficient and competent at navigating these twists and turns. Cause even if the patterns themselves are sourced from the same material, the

facets around them change as we change and as our perspectives change. So that brings us to that developmental.

age a method technique where we look at your chart and we kind of see where were these major plot points that unfolded in your early childhood development that kind of set the template in place for the soul syllabus lessons that you are

Living through in your various experiences, be they personal life or flowing into your work life as well.

And so the first planet that shows up in your chart after the ascendant is actually your Mercury. And you had mentioned about finding your voice, and you are the host of a podcast, and you're a content creator, and you read tarot card. So, like, can you see how this is already? Like, all I haven't even done a lick of interpretation yet. And we have the communication planet as the first form.

Plot point for you. And so your Mercury is in Cancer. Your Mercury is in the first house. And an important thing to note about these formative plot points is that whatever aspects are being made by the planet that we're focused on, which in this case it's Mercury and Cancer in your first, whatever that Mercury and Cancer touches across the chart, that gets lit up too.

So your first experience with some of these other energies happen, but they come through the lens and through the framework of that mercury placement, right? Like if you think of the chart as a circle, which it is, it's just like you're the the rim of the circle you're standing at, looking at it through, is the mercury rim, right? So let me

Talk a minute about what Mercury is, because that's gonna kinda set a little bit of tone around like here's the memory we're kinda looking for, the story we're kinda looking around. And if you don't remember, that's okay. We'll move on to the next plot point.

Mercury has to do with communication. So we can assume that this had to do with with words, with talking, with maybe hearing, with sound, maybe siblings if you are a younger sibling, or maybe if you were the older sibling, but like a baby being born, like at your second birthday. But this looks like it's happening right around your second birthday. This very likely has something to do with mom in some way, because this is Mercury and cancer. Cancer shows up and can

And often, especially at the frame of mind a two-year-old would be at that nurturing, caretaking, safety, accepted, here's where I belong. Energy is usually associated with mother or with family in some way. But this could have also been a confusing experience, too. This lit up your Uranus Neptune opposition. So that can bring in a lot of disruptive. There could be that there would have felt like there was a disruption in our ability to connect.

somehow and communicate something that felt urgent to us, or it got something got lost in translation, or that we felt lost, etc. etc. There's also a connection to Pluto that lights up. There's a connection to Mars that lights up. So there are a few different elements of awareness that would have kind of s came online around this time. Is there anything that you can recall about this time frame?

Kelsey (08:27)

Well, my first memory actually was my first birthday. A lot

Laurel Kassor (08:31)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (08:31)

of people say they can't remember their first birthday, I, so there is like memories back then that like,

Laurel Kassor (08:36)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (08:37)

that I like snippets. I know for like, when you mentioned mother connection and that like, I know that I was absolutely obsessed with my mother as a toddler. So I was very much attached to her. And when she left,

I was devastated when she had to go do something and be separate from me. I know that it was really hard on me, really hard on me. So I know that like, for example, she was playing in a softball game. I think this was an example. And I guess I ran out onto the field to grab her like, hey, where are you? Like, you know, so I think there was an attachment there and my poor mom, you know, she, but that's kind of what I.

can remember or what I've been told is that I was

Laurel Kassor (09:23)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (09:23)

like very much a mommy's girl and very much

Laurel Kassor (09:26)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (09:27)

wanted to be by her all the time and be with her all the time. And that wasn't always possible.

Laurel Kassor (09:33)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. One of the things that comes up for me as you're saying that it's

Associated with Mercury, right? Like that's kind of where I at least I as your astrologer right now, I gotta kinda keep my lens on, like, okay, we gotta look at this through a child's mercurial brain, is this idea that I've been playing with a lot lately that Mercury is the representative agent of pillar three in my pillar system.

the echo pillar. And so like I'm almost what I'm hearing here is like this little mini-me energy is that like we were almost always wanting to be like mom's shadow and maybe copycatting what mom is doing.

A little bit here and there. I'm hearing like that with the running out onto the field. Again, I'm like, this is when roughly, you know, Mars got activated, Mars is sports. it's not in a tense aspect to Mars. It's in a it's in an aha. What? Huh?

kind of aspect there. So it's almost like these ideas. There are ideas that are formul formulating or circulating around care and around what care means. and around what safety means. And I what I'm hearing through part of the story that you're echoing from the early childhood is that we associated being safe with being by mom, close to her, near, near her.

Kelsey (10:51)

Literally,

Laurel Kassor (10:53)

literally physically close and near. Mm-hmm. And that's really interesting because your Mercury, well, Mercury in general, that pillar three in general, does have to do s with locality. It does have something to do with what's nearby you. and it has to do with neighborhoods, it has to do with siblings, it has to do with classmates, right? it has to do with these features there. Which all those things are nearby and around, right? also that Mercury does make a

a waning s a waning semi-sextile to Chiron. Now I didn't mention Chiron up front because I wanted to kind of see how it was going to play in, but I'm already hearing it. Chiron is the planet.

Of pillar six. So Chiron has a lot to do with refinement, fixing things. It has a lot to do with service and skill building and practice of something. Now it's this Mercury, this the brain, the mind, the idea factory, how we are connecting dots and processing information is looking for safety. It's looking to stay safe. It's looking to stay protected. We can even say this is a little double down as you are also a cancer rising.

Right. So there is this like, how do we engage the world? we stay safe. we have a nice safe border, we have a nice, safe shell, we have nice safe people, and we stay safe. And we protect ourselves and we protect the people we care about. And that's what's up. And so when mom would leave, a big feature of this kind of cancer stay safe energy, which by the way comes from pillar four, the support pillar.

So cancer is a sign of the support pillar. So this energy, this kind of cancer, let's protect it energy, is also known to work with themes of rejection or themes of abandonment or themes of loss. And so we're hearing kind of like right from the gate that sometimes mom would vanish, finger quotes, and I'm using the word vanish specifically because.

Like I said at the beginning, I was like, this could have been a confusing time because Neptune got activated because Uranus was activated. So it's like sometimes mom's there and sometimes she's not, could be kind of part of the internalization process. And re because remember, two-year-olds are not logical. Right? Like they they don't know.

Kelsey (13:00)

Peek-a-boo, like

where'd you go? Like it's like exactly right? It's I did like she was never abandoning me, but my two-year-old brain couldn't tell the difference. Yeah, that definitely resonates for sure. I feel like that would be kind of that like I was kind of stuck like glue to my mom at that age and I was always mimicking her like. Did you have a lightning bolt? Tell me.

Laurel Kassor (13:22)

I did have a lightning bolt. I'm so sorry. Yes, I did.

I mean it's Mercury, so it's something about communication, but also we're like, but you're not speaking yet. Like this is not really speaking, speaking, con conversing logic-oriented age, right? However, if when mom vanished, finger quotes again, suddenly vanished, suddenly gone, and you cried.

And you cried and you cried and she didn't come back, that might be where this communication thing is living. Is like, it doesn't matter how loud or how urgently or how wildly I'm pulling in some like first house themes of survival. Crying for survival, communicating for survival is also a Mercury in the first house kind of thing. And

Kelsey (14:08)

Right.

Laurel Kassor (14:08)

so if part of what

baby Kelsey was internalizing at that moment was oops sometimes the caretaker disappears. And when that happens we tried crying and that didn't work. So maybe if we're if you know we have to

withdraw, right? Maybe using our voice doesn't work to get us what we want or what we need or what we're trying to pursue, which is mom, which is the care and the comfort that we have when we're with her. And that could be a little piece of setting this template in place. Cause the way that I look at things, when we're babies, especially, we this it is our first rodeo we don't have the sophistication to reason or ration and

So these templates, these lesson plans that we play out our life, they have to start somewhere. there's some part where we like didn't get the memo correctly. And then we spend our life correcting the memo and making sure we actually g got it. And this thing that happened when we were tiny itty biddies this would

to me sounds like something that would be over time, over multiple moments in time of like mom's got to get in the shower, mom has to go to work, mom has to go to the grocery store, you know.

Kelsey (15:18)

Absolutely. Yeah. And like, I think it's amazing to think back and I'm like, wow, like that is, I'd say that age was very critical. I remember, like having memories of like copying her. like, like she, like sweeping the floors, you know, like that kind of cooking. wanted to be right beside her, that mimicking that echoing, like you mentioned, right? I wanted to be just like her. I wanted

Laurel Kassor (15:41)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (15:41)

to be with her all the time. So.

My mother is a wonderful woman. know she'll be listening, so shout out mom. yeah, she'll be like, yeah, girl. She'll remember this for sure. it's,

Laurel Kassor (15:52)

Mm.

Kelsey (15:53)

yeah, like, and I kind of have to rely on what my parents told me because that age is like, like there's some flashes of memories, but like, it's pretty sparse back then.

Laurel Kassor (16:02)

Which is pretty impressive in the first

place. It's pretty impressive in the first place there. And it also makes me wonder, there's just something that's coming through,

when we have like a personal planet placement like Mercury or the Sun or the Moon, especially, when you have a personal planet like those three who get touched very early in the consciousness experience by planets like Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto, which your Mercury was activated.

When it got activated around that age, around like t would be where the consciousness is like, my god, mom leaves. What the fuck is that about? my god. And would have set that into motion for a little while. It activated these other three planets, these outer planets. And they are really big energies, because they have a lot to do with disruption, chaos, big fat new perspectives. That's your honest. They have a lot to do with.

Confusion, loss, sorrow, literally the ethers, Neptune, and then there's Pluto who also got activated when Mercury got activated, which is about transformation, transmutation, healing, catharsis, the very deep excavation and alchemy. and so even though your Pluto is in a trine to Mercury, which is all which is ultimately a objectively a pretty nice placement.

in that try and give create flow and the energies are like, Hey, I see you, hey, I see you too. Awesome, you keep doing good work, buddy. I support you. But it still can be scary because it's still Pluto and you're still two years old. Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (17:38)

Well, yeah, and it's free. Like a train is free flowing. It doesn't necessarily

mean it's nice, easy energy. It's it's just a lot. It's free flowing. So right. That's

Laurel Kassor (17:48)

Exactly. and in

my system, each each individual aspect has its own undertone. And so this is actually a what we would call a waning trine, where Mercury is is closing the trine t to Pluto, and it carries a Pillar Nine undertone with it, which is like an expansion or reach undertone. It has kind of a Jupitarian, Sagittarian, Ninth house-ian

essence beneath it. So it is about teaching and reaching and broadcasting. So it's interesting that that gets like kind of sprinkled in a little bit here because it's just like, you're learning some stuff. We're gonna have to blow that up really big for transformation later. This will come in handy later, is almost a little bit of like what it it's giving me

Kelsey (18:31)

Hehehe.

Laurel Kassor (18:33)

it's really interesting. I know we're gonna come back to your voice.

I know we're going to because it's going to come up again pretty soon in the storyline. I mentioned it contacts Mars well in a sextile, so that's also kind of a like, shit, huh. We're learning something and we're going to have to get some new ideas moving. it's a little disruptive

to what we are trying to accomplish, but we're gonna find a way.

So we'll come back to

Kelsey (18:56)

Right.

Laurel Kassor (18:57)

that here, but I also want to mention that again, there is this semi-sextile to Chiron. we gotta fix this communication thing, will come up again pretty soon. But before we go to Chiron and how we realize we need to start f fixing this ability to communicate ourselves or process information.

or just exchange what we're learning. we have the sun actually shows up pr next. So I would love if we if you could tell us a little bit about this is literally right after your fifth birthday, which is right around kindergarten, I would imagine,

This is your son in Leo. So this could have a lot to do with friends. This could have a lot to do with father as well. Both the son and Leo represent father. So we kind of have like a double stack that this could be a fatherly related event. this could have something to do again with school.

And education, learning in some way, neighborhood again as well. Siblings, too, can show up as part of this. it's Leo stuff. So it's creativity, self-expression, performance. Your moon gets activated. So this could have been an event that was between your mother and your father that you were witness to in some way. But otherwise, it highlights a few other aspects.

So is anything coming to mind for when you were around five?

Kelsey (20:22)

so five, that's interesting. You bring up siblings and all that, like father. as a kid, it's interesting. Like you bring up, like, you know, Leo can represent the father, the moon is the mother. It's when I was growing up, I viewed my parents as the opposite. Like I had dreams

Laurel Kassor (20:37)

Mm.

Kelsey (20:39)

where my dad was the moon and my mom was the sign. Yes. So it's interesting. Like

Laurel Kassor (20:41)

Really? okay.

Kelsey (20:45)

I just, I just remember that. Like I remember having dreams, like where they were like,

the sun and the moon, but they were opposites of the typical archetypes, right? But how would I put this? I guess my sister was born when I was four. So

Laurel Kassor (21:00)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (21:00)

that was a big transition because I was mommy's girl and I was mommy and daddy's only girl, right? And so having

Laurel Kassor (21:05)

Mm.

Kelsey (21:06)

a sister born at that point really rocked my world,

Laurel Kassor (21:10)

you had to start sharing.

Kelsey (21:11)

yes. so I guess like that

kind of led into like being five, like I guess going

Laurel Kassor (21:17)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (21:18)

into school, having a little sister at home. And I think there's this picture of me as a little girl around the age of five or six, I can't quite place it, but when you brought up the Sun literally it's me, my cousins, my big cousins, they were 10 years older than me, I thought they were so cool. They dressed me up.

and they gave me a little sunflower and they took a photo of me and I just look radiant, happy, inner child. Like when I look at that photo, I'm like, that's before any programming, any self doubt, any kind of like sadness like that you can, you know, like as a human, we collect along the way, like anything before anyone told me you can't do that or that's not the proper

Laurel Kassor (22:01)

Mm.

Kelsey (22:02)

way to do it, right? It's kind of that inner child healing. So,

there's a picture of me and that's kind of what I pictured when you said the sun around Leo age

Laurel Kassor (22:10)

Mm.

Kelsey (22:11)

five is learning to be seen and celebrated, developing that creativity, playfulness, still having that imagination. And I remember like my kindergarten teacher was like, you are special because you are you, right? And I remember that, right? So it's like,

Laurel Kassor (22:27)

because it's so fucking sweet, yes.

Kelsey (22:32)

yeah. And I remember like,

can't remember if it was like a Barney song or something. I loved Barney as a kid, but it's like, you are special because like, it's like, there's like this song that comes through. So I might be wrong with the origins of that, but it could have been a song we sang in kindergarten. But I remember

Laurel Kassor (22:47)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (22:47)

like, it's kind of that first time I realized like, like I am special because I am me. And I, it was when I made, like, of course I did play school. I had daycare, but it's when I formed friendships that have lasted me since.

God, kindergarten, right? So.

Laurel Kassor (23:05)

my fucking

god dude this is like the most beautiful little like a solar moment. Keep going. Yeah.

Kelsey (23:11)

It's a collection, right? It's a collection of memories

that, because like what, like my intuition and like how spirit shows me things is those images, the, like the symbols,

Laurel Kassor (23:19)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (23:20)

right? So, and then I've seen my friends' faces as we're talking. So I have like a group of four of us that we've been friends since kindergarten and they came to my wedding, which was in May. So we all met in kindergarten.

Laurel Kassor (23:31)

My fuck dude. This is so adorable.

Kelsey (23:35)

So yeah, and like, yeah, we've like.

drifted apart over the years, come together over the years, but we were always there for each other. So I feel like those lasting friendships formed as well.

Laurel Kassor (23:46)

Million. That's exactly what I was referring to without knowing that's exactly what I was referring to. literally when I was saying, like, okay, it activated your moon, but like everything else, it's actually like kind of nicely positioned here. So like you just described like such a huge piece of what this solar, radiant, solar Leo energy can be experienced as.

p in truly a pure form of a child's mind. Like like how a child interprets that is like, my God, I am special. my God, I am someone to fuck with. That's right. And for your cousins to adore you, cousins are part of the third pillar too. cause they're also like, peers, you know, your early peers.

is part of that process. You mentioned all of like the key pillar five words. You mentioned creativity, you mentioned play. Of course you mentioned friends, like being special, being unique, being an individual, literally radiant sunshine. I can't even interpret the astrology because you interpreted it better than I ever could just now, like by telling us your story. And so I love that. That's such a amazing energy, especially

Because what that activated in you was not just like, a few nice memories. It activated a template for you of like when I'm me, when I'm seen, when I'm witnessed, when I'm celebrated, I shine. I'm someone to fuck with. Like, of course, why wouldn't you love me? What's not to love? I'm adorable. Everyone thinks so.

There's no reason not to. And it's formulating something very significant inside of you. And I and I say this because your sun is in a sextile, it is in a waning sextile to your Jupiter.

really tight, like it's really close. And so the waning sextile is part of Pillar 11. So it has a Aquarian slash Uranian slash 11th house sort of undertone to it. So it has kind of this big perspective energy.

Attached, or this kind of interdisciplinary thinking energy attached to it, or this inventive, like aha, Eureka type of energy around it. And so when you are sitting authentically in your line and you learned this at like age five, when you met all these friends who stuck around, continued to validate you, continued to uplift and support your choices and show up for you, right? That created this template of belief.

With Jupiter coming in, which your Jupiter is in Libra, in that waning Sextile, where it's like,

Kelsey (26:20)

Yes.

Laurel Kassor (26:22)

my gosh, when I just am who I am, I contribute to a collective. There's that sextile.

That makes us all feel good. That expands us all. That gives us all something to like connect with and reflect to and relate to. it's really, really cute. It's really, really beautiful. And your Jupiter's in the fifth house of friends. So that pulls in a pillar five thing to this double this already pillar five moment. Right? So it's like we're really pulling in this like ex expansive friendships energy. But it's not just friendships, it's also.

confidence to be who you are, to express oneself and see this is and what can happen when I do this. This is not to say that you are like this 24-7. This is to say that like at that time there was a belief set up within that in some ways helped us to be able to navigate some of these other things later down the road, where, I know how to communicate

care and love and fun and appreciation and I know how to preach these things to people and reflect them back to people as well. it's almost like this when I shine you shine energy that like was very imprinted early, which I just think is so, so cute. But I will say, again, this is when an opposition to the moon activates as well.

Right. So as much as there is nothing but cute beauty in there, there was also something that we were learning about being a standout individual, which is the sun in Leo, and nurturing a collective, that moon in Aquarius. Right? It's like, wait, ha-mm-mm-mm-oh, I want both. I want both. How do we do both?

And this is interesting because again, I say it's not like this was all sunshines and rainbows for you, even though there was some nice template being set up for experiential processing around like, when I shine, you shine. That's that's so cool. There's

still this other element going on where it's like, okay, but how do I adequately care and protect myself, which is important to us? We've already established how important that is to us.

From that earlier memory in that earlier moment, and also be a very active participating member of discourse and of happenings and of exchange. Cause remember this is the sun in the third house. So anyway, I'll stop fire hosing you. How is that landing? How's that feeling?

Kelsey (28:52)

very much like the sun moon conjunction is something I really, it comes to, it comes to a head a lot. I noticed there's a lot of like, it's kind of a balancing act of like expressing my,

Laurel Kassor (29:04)

The opposition? No way.

Kelsey (29:06)

no way, balancing that like

personal expression with collective kind of awareness, right? It's like, I'm here to shine as an individual in some capacity,

I also feel like I want to contribute to the collective as well. It's, yeah, it's interesting. I feel like I'm constantly, like I'm hyper self-aware in some

Laurel Kassor (29:32)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (29:32)

ways. I feel like I'm always viewing things from multiple perspectives at once. I kind of feel divided in a lot of ways.

Laurel Kassor (29:37)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (29:41)

Like I'm like, ooh, like I want to do this, but like, what about this?

How will other people feel about this? How will I impact, like, you how does my voice impact others, whether in a positive or negative or neutral way?

Laurel Kassor (29:55)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Absolutely, a hundred percent. And I think a big part of that, like that relational awareness quality, is because this is an opposition. You know, you were born at a full moon, which fun fact, everybody, if you ever see someone who is born on a full moon, they have a sun-moon opposition in their chart. That is how astrology works. this opposition is the aspect of pillar seven.

In my system, pillar seven, I call I've recently renamed it to polarity. It's the polarity pillar. The attraction pillar is what I used to call it. But it's I think polarity is a more accurate way of describing this energy, as you just described, literally for us yourself, right? so there is a relationship between

Kelsey (30:37)

you

Laurel Kassor (30:42)

Who I am and the decisions I make and validating them and being validated for them, which is the sun in Leo and that creation. Because everything we create is a result of decisions that we make, which is what the sun represents and what Leo the Sun is the is the guy who does the decision making. But Leo is the style in which that just those decisions are made. And so this is about like creating and being fucking seen for it, And

Creating this polarity with but care for all who you can see. you know, and as a fellow moon and Aquarius person, as a fellow moon and Aquarius person with the moon in the damn like less than a degree of separation between us, I relate to you seeing multiple things.

Multiple perspectives at a time. And so for you, this relational quality comes in, is what I'm getting at here, is that this pillar seven polarity relationship creates a full spectrum reflection where you are both the one headlining your show and the one watching your show.

At the same time. It's a really unique kind of space to be able to occupy broad sp spectrums at once and people with a lot of oppositions or strong oppositions, powerful ones, like a one between the sun and the moon would indeed be a powerful opposition. it can create this like very multifaceted

Awareness and that awareness quality does come in from the Aquarian essence. Aquarius is part of Pillar 11. Pillar 11 is the awareness pillar. Like that's what it is. It is like the awakening

Kelsey (32:19)

Right.

Laurel Kassor (32:21)

pillar. It it is innovation, right? So it is about being able to step out of the self.

step out of the go beyond the collective to see the collective to witness it. It is a witnessing energy. And so is Uranus, which if you recall, ties us back to the voice thing. This is part of how the chart is always connected back into itself. We have these multiple moving parts that source from the same pot of energy, but connect to each other in unique different ways to create these unique little multifaceted

lived experiences there. This is also important because again, you're a cancer rising. Mercury, who was that first planet who we talked about and like introduced us to this idea of like, voice. Voice is interesting. Does it work? What happens when we use it? Huh. Hmm. Interesting. Is also connected to

The moon in Aquarius up there. So you see how it gets looped back

Kelsey (33:16)

You

Laurel Kassor (33:17)

in again, where it becomes like, well, that one time when I was a tiny itty bitty baby and I yelled and I yelled and I tried to be the center of attention, I was ignored, or I was a rejected, or I was abandoned, or I was neglected. And so there is also and again, this is the moon, so it does have to do with mother.

Which does tie us back into some of the whether mommy meant to or not. I am a believer that I think that most of our parents really do their best with what they have at the time. And they can't help how their little baby children are like interpreting. Right?

Kelsey (33:46)

Well, my perception is different

than what probably happened, right? mom needs a shower. Where have you gone, mother? Yeah, totally.

Laurel Kassor (33:56)

Yes, no. I mean

Kelsey (33:58)

She was wonderful. She was a great mom. She did do her best, like honestly. So it's how I perceived.

Laurel Kassor (34:05)

It's all perception and ultimately that's what

that's a moon in Aquarius inc itself is that understanding and that awareness. 'cause that's like you know.

Obviously, you're someone who does reflection and does The Work™ as we call it, you know, and to ponder and to pontificate and to integrate and to make sense of things, right? But part of that when you have a strong pillar 11 presence in your life is the understanding that, baby, this whole thing is just a bunch of perspectives looking at the same thing from different lenses.

Hello, right? And so it does feed back into that child brain doing something to be like, huh, hmm. And then also thus having to learn to heal a perspective. And, you know, I'm

Again, your mom does sound like a lovely sincerely than just like, I was a mommy. You know? And yet at some point in your life, you have likely had to do some sort of work, even if it wasn't directly attached to mom specifically, but around rejection, around the sensations of rejection. And where do I belong? And where does my voice belong? And will anyone actually care if they hear me? And that doesn't mean that it was like mom, you did this to me.

That means that like, the same energy that we associated with our mother at one point has shifted and evolved to just associate to be an associated thing with care in general.

Kelsey (35:31)

no one 1000 % I think I've dealt with like like working through That kind of like wounding of like being feeling rejected even though I wasn't or a feeling that my voice wouldn't be heard I feel like that's kind of a reoccurring theme within my life. It's like alright I've had to learn that I bring value you know my voice is important, and it doesn't matter. I don't have to be right because

from anyone's perspective, like anyone can be

wrong, right? It's like, okay, just speak what comes to you, right? That's kind of what my life lesson has been, just to, bleh.

Laurel Kassor (36:08)

Which is again, you're this before we got on the call, I was like, usually people just talk themselves into the next plot point. You just did it. You just did it. When you said just now, you know, you I learned that you don't always have to be right. It's actually a perfect segue into what the next formative plot point is in the life story. Cause it looks like it's about age.

Eight nine eight nine-ish. we're still in school age, we're still in Leo, we're still in performance, we're still in developing a sense of self, we're still in choice, learning dis choices, learning decision making. We're still in could have to do with that, like we're still in that sector here, but we're a couple years past the my god, I'm a fucking thing. my god, that's so cool part. And now we're at Chiron.

We're at Chiron and Leo. Now, I briefly mentioned Chiron, and I was like, we're about to get to him in a second, but we're gonna stop, we're gonna pit stop at the sun first. so Chiron in my system is associated with pillar six, the refinement pillar or the service pillar. This is the home of everyone's favorite Virgo and the Sixth House and the waxing quincunx aspect. They're all part of the same pillar.

And so Chiron is like the representative agent there. And so what Chiron represents for us in our lived experiences is the process of gaining competency, of gaining a skill, of practicing something, of problem solving, of diagnosing and assessing and correcting things. And this is part of why Chiron gets that wounded.

Healer reputation because when we are solving the same problem for an extended period of time, like our entire life, eventually we're like, what the fuck? Why can't I fix this thing? Fuck this thing, right? But I actually find that Chiron tends to function as a skill that people have been practicing. Because it's been a problem that they

have been developing a protocol around or a method around. It's very much about

If if the Mercury stuff and the Gemini stuff and like the Pillar Three stuff is about processing information and data, then the Chiron stuff and the Virgo stuff in the Pillar Six is about processing practicality,

the process of moving through a process of refinement, of whittling something down, of chiseling, of making it functional. Right? It's like the process of making something functional in the three-dimensional world. It's earth processes, whereas pillar three is air processes. Anyway, I digress a little bit there.

So Chiron is like an editor type of energy. So we're looking at, again, school age. This could have to do with performance. Almost like there's like this image coming through of like a school play, of like being in a school play or something and having like to rehearse lines. I don't even know if that's true, but it's that energy of like I practiced something, or I've been told I did something wrong and I not have and I'm having a hard time getting it correctly.

this is connected to Mercury. So this is looking at that story plot point of my voice. What does it mean to have a voice coming back online? This particular energy in regards to Mercury is a waning semisextile. So it actually has a pillar 12 undertone, so it has a Pisces undertone, it has a Neptune undertone, a 12th house undertone.

to it, which makes me think there's something kind of maybe confusing, deceptive, psychic y.

mystical almost even potentially, but definitely like confusing is an undertone that we can associate at this age. So that's something there about like fixing your words, fixing the way you're thinking. There's also the opposition to your Saturn.

And this is the first time your Saturn is coming online and that you are like having a big relationship with it. Saturn represents authority. So we can assume that this is some kind of person that you would have looked like as in charge. This is Saturn in your ninth house. So if there was religion growing up, this could be religious authority. this could also be school authority. Again, those are common ways.

And also the last one that it brought online was Pluto as well. That your Chiron does make a square to your Pluto.

And you this is not the very first time you're getting introduced to your Pluto. You met it through Mercury, but this time it is a tense position. This to me makes me think of there's punishment involved. We did something wrong, we got punished somehow for it, or we perceived some sort of punishment. I say that because Saturn is involved. The aspect of Saturn and his pillar are involved,

Kelsey (40:53)

Well, I'm thinking about that age, eight, nine, probably grade four. I had a teacher, my goodness, she was just very strong, she was kind of that strict teacher in the school. Like you knew when you got to her class, you knew grade four, it was like, okay,

as a kid I was like, oh goodness, like, oh boy. So, you know, I remember doing a project for that class and we had to go and present in front of everybody. And

Laurel Kassor (41:22)

Mm.

Kelsey (41:22)

I like, I learned so much through that project because I didn't prepare properly as a nine year old. I didn't know how to do a presentation. I think it was on like,

Like we were learning about like how cameras worked or something. And I think I like just printed a bunch of pictures of cameras and put them on a poster board and then had nothing.

Laurel Kassor (41:49)

You're gonna get

a kick out of this, that waning semi-sextile, the I was like, it's kinda like Neptune, kinda like Pisces, that one with Mercury. one of the topics

Kelsey (41:56)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (41:58)

associated with it is film and cameras and photography.

Kelsey (42:01)

That's like so on the nose. Like literally I remember,

I think I remember what it was called. It was like the Pentax Tiki-Bino or something like that. That was like the camera. But like it's

Laurel Kassor (42:12)

my gosh, that's funny.

Kelsey (42:14)

like scarred into my mind because I didn't prepare. I just had pictures of a camera. So I walked up and had like nothing to say. Had nothing to say about it. and it was the worst. I remember just turning red.

And just I don't remember much, because I kind of like was like, like my soul left my body. Like I was so embarrassed. But it was about presentation.

Laurel Kassor (42:34)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (42:38)

And I had like, I had nothing to say.

And I learned from that, but then I started to over prepare. Like that's kind of the swing back from that. Yeah, that wounding. Yeah. But she was lovely.

Laurel Kassor (42:47)

Yep, a hundred. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (42:51)

Like my teacher, when I think about she,

think she came right up. She knew I was struggling. She put she kind of side hugged me and moved me away.

Laurel Kassor (43:01)

You can see it like so clearly in your head.

Kelsey (43:05)

Okay, it's okay. Come here. And she was like, Do need a second and she was very kind about it. But I remember she

Laurel Kassor (43:11)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (43:12)

was very like, I remember she was to say posture, and we'd sit up in our desks

But that's kind of my memory of like, I think that was my performance anxiety, right?

Laurel Kassor (43:21)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (43:21)

It's like, my goodness, like I was unprepared and I had nothing to say and I was wrong. You know? Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (43:28)

Mm-hmm. That makes complete

sense. That is you you named so many features of how this energy can populate their that's so funny, dude. it's so on the nose. It's ridiculously

Kelsey (43:39)

Yeah. Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (43:40)

on the nose. I mean, that is the performance anxiety, from there you showed up totally unpracticed.

unskilled in incompetent huh like what the fuck dude wait what there's you prepare for a performance what do you mean you prepare for a performance what do you you don't just go up there and show something which is so Leo just that just demonstrate I just wanna like it's so microscopic but it's one of these tiny things where it's like you gotta pull it out and blow it up. When you think about the difference between Leo energy and solar energy from Chiron energy and Virgo energy Leo literally says ta-da

And that's it. And then Chiron's like, okay, and why do I care? Like why I see this, so what? What do you what do you it what what to what practical end? Like what do I do with it? Which says, what do I do with it? Right? And so it shows the solar, the sun in Leo, the Chiron in Leo, and that said, just being is not enough. Just showing isn't enough.

you actually have to fix what you show and attach it to this telling thing, which is that Mercury thing. And if you remember from the thing from earlier, it's like if you yell, no one comes, but yeah.

Kelsey (44:50)

girl, like I had a memory and it goes back to that like five, six year old kind of self.

Laurel Kassor (44:56)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (44:58)

I auditioned for the talent show at our school and I literally was five. And my cousins again had taught me how to play London bridges on the piano. London bridges falling down, falling

Laurel Kassor (45:11)

my god.

Kelsey (45:12)

down, falling down.

That's all I played. went up. And then that, ta-da! And like, I didn't feel embarrassed. But that's such a funny difference between those stages in life. Like, at five, I was like,

Laurel Kassor (45:23)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (45:24)

that was the Leo. Ta-da! And that's good enough. And it was like two seconds.

Laurel Kassor (45:26)

Yes. Yes.

Kelsey (45:30)

Everyone was like,

Laurel Kassor (45:33)

Yeah, they're like, okay, great. But you got cheered for, you got validated, you got

you were special, you did the thing, you showed up, you showed off, and everyone loved you. And then you came and you did the same thing. You tried what had worked before, because that's how you fucking knew how things worked. At the time, that was the processes under which you were functioning. And you showed up and you showed up, and that's all you did. You showed up and you showed the thing. And then you learned, there are rules.

I didn't know about, which is Saturn, the opposition to Saturn coming in. It was refined, it was reflected back to you for what might have felt like the first time that, shit, there's something bigger than me going on here that I am not equipped and prepared for, that I do not know the limits of.

to put myself and my performing against in order to to diagnose if I'm gonna measure up, which is by the way, you mentioned the teacher made you all sit up. That's such a fucking Saturn ass thing.

Kelsey (46:28)

Yep. she's saturn when I think about

Laurel Kassor (46:33)

it's about measuring up. It's all coming from that same source energy get to the top.

hold yourself as an authority. Right. And so it's like, if I want to succeed, we're finding that, there are rules and we need to figure these things out because I didn't know there were rules. I was just doing this thing. And then now I'm finding out that that's not it anymore. Like I can't only do that anymore.

So we connected it to Saturn, we connected it to Mercury. it is making a square to Pluto, and that's the humiliation. that is definitely part of that humiliation factor. usually when I mean there are a hundred and ten million thousand ways that all this energy can come together and be experienced, but it is not uncommon to see when there is a team up of pillar five.

Which is Leo, Sun, Fifth House, waxing trine and pillar eight, Pluto, Scorpio, eighth house, waning quincunx That humiliation is one of the things that turns up between them because these pillars are inherently in a tense connection to each other. They're inherently square on the wheel. And Leo is about visibility and validation.

And Pluto is about like what hurts. Right? Like Pluto is about unearthing what is buried. So if you're making visible what is buried, you've buried something because you didn't want it visible. And so if you're gonna take that and

make it visible, it's probably something you didn't want seen and validated in the first place. So there that tends to be part of the lineup there. And at that age, honestly it's a delight that the humiliation was just I got embarrassed in front of my class and not something v more severely

embarrassing than that, right?

But it's will be interesting to hear how that carries forward in time. Because this was a beginning template, an early template. You hadn't met Pluto yet. We're gonna get there pretty we'll get there in a minute of meeting Pluto, but that got that template got set up as well, where there's like, if I don't do it right, I'm I could be annihilated. Like I will die. Like so I will die of embarrassment.

There's that. And then also your Venus was activated too. So Venus got activated, which is really cute, I think, because she was into the sextile. And you're like, the teacher was strict, but she was really nice about it. Like she was kissed and she was caring. And so to me, this is like, okay, she saw the she was reading the room and said, Let's I see you, girl. I relate with you.

Quietly, I'm going to

kinda

Kelsey (49:05)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (49:06)

put you back, put cast you back into the class. And we'll ignore this and we'll pretend we didn't see it. Like we'll cast this little invisible net around you.

Kelsey (49:13)

Literally, that's what happened. I don't think

a word wasn't spoken about it. nothing. I never heard about it again. Like nothing. She just let it go.

cause like, know, thank goodness because she didn't reprimand me. She didn't like, she's, she saw I was humiliated, right? Like she just, she knew. Yeah. She was like, you're punishing yourself enough. yeah.

Laurel Kassor (49:28)

That was the punishment. when I said punishment earlier, yeah. No, but that makes sense because also you're Saturn's retrograde.

you didn't need an authority figure to punish you. You were the authority figure punishing you. You were your inner authority punishing you. And having to like untangle that and Pluto's retrograde too. So there was a lot in even just that little story there.

The next big event looks like it would have been about age maybe eleven, twelve, thirteen ish. looks like it's Mars. Mars came online. Mars is actually making

Some pretty helpful aspects to pretty much everyone except for Saturn. So this is another Saturn thing. Now you had mentioned earlier about the career shifts and rebuilding the career shifts.

Kelsey (50:14)

So you're saying between 11 and 13 kind of thing. Like that was the next point we're talking about.

Laurel Kassor (50:19)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (50:20)

Mars, that's interesting. Yeah, like I'd say that's around the age where I really started putting stake in how smart I was and how my schoolwork, like I knew that if I did well in school, I could do anything. That's kind of was my mentality.

Laurel Kassor (50:36)

huh.

Kelsey (50:37)

And I mean, I put a lot of worth

and how in my performance. Does that make sense? Like

Laurel Kassor (50:42)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (50:44)

I think I became obsessed with how I was gonna do in my grades. I those years were kind of the time where I was really hard on myself.

Laurel Kassor (50:52)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (50:53)

And also like 11, 12, 13, that's such a weird time in your life. it's just weird. when I think about going to,

junior high that's like here we had junior high it was a bigger school

Laurel Kassor (51:03)

It

has a lot to do with belonging, this period of time, which ranges ages nine to fourteen. So it really is a critically formative time in that sense of you're going from fifth grade elementary school right up until it's all of middle school, basically, That's what we're looking at here, which is a very awkward moment.

Kelsey (51:22)

Well,

and when I think about belonging, and this kind of ties back to what I do now with wellness coaching. I was an overweight child. I had a lot of struggles with my weight. I was always chubby as a kid. when I was seven, there was a young man who bullied me, bullied me relentlessly. And that was kind of my first introduction to, wow, I'm different.

Oh, I'm not enough. I'm this, right?

Laurel Kassor (51:51)

That's a pull off. Sorry to cut in, but just wanna attach that

another fractal on the Chiron lens that we were just talking about before with

Kelsey (51:59)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (52:01)

the performance of being witnessed, being seen, being not right.

Kelsey (52:08)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Laurel Kassor (52:09)

Right. And

so 'cause it c it comes in at that exact same age period where we're realizing like, something about like me is wrong and the choices I made is wrong and I need to correct that in some way. Right. So it's it's

Kelsey (52:19)

Yes.

Laurel Kassor (52:21)

an it's another fractal on that exact same energy that you pulled the presentation out as like the example of it.

I think that it's fair to say most of these events are just a piece of the larger moment in time of the experience of of these events. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Kelsey (52:39)

Mm-hmm.

yeah. 1000%. And when I think about belonging in junior high school, my gosh, like the teasing, the bullying that can go on. I had really good friends. That's what kind of was really good. I knew I was a nice person. I knew that I was smart. I knew that I had all these things going for me, but a lot of times, my voice didn't matter. That's kind of how I felt, was

I'm just this overweight girl that like no one wants to listen to. I made fun of, I wasn't taken seriously sometimes by people. I found,

Laurel Kassor (53:13)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (53:14)

I would say something and it's almost like I was invisible to certain people, right? So

Laurel Kassor (53:17)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (53:18)

I feel like that was very wounding, but also

Laurel Kassor (53:21)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (53:21)

it gave me a lot of perspective. Like now

Laurel Kassor (53:23)

Yeah.

Kelsey (53:25)

as an adult, I can look back at them like, wow, yeah, makes sense.

Laurel Kassor (53:28)

You're able to

to watch more and witness

Kelsey (53:30)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (53:31)

more because of that sense of not being seen. And so it's like at the time that fucking sucks. But as you scale out into your soul's journey, you're like, I actually was able to learn quite a bit during that time in ways that I now can realize other people were not observing the world.

You know what I'm saying?

Kelsey (53:53)

1000%.

Laurel Kassor (53:55)

the exact exact same experience, but I had similar experience I know I'm a little bit weird, but I'm still a human being. Like, can we just acknowledge each other? Yeah.

Kelsey (54:01)

Like you're invisible

or like not treating you like with respect, like throwing.

Laurel Kassor (54:06)

Yes. We both

share this aspect of Mars quincunx to Saturn. so this is we're talking about respect. We're talking about like the hierarchies you know, of of belonging. there's something

Kelsey (54:20)

you

Laurel Kassor (54:21)

in in that Mars-Saturn connection, which in my case it's like I have to figure out the structures.

In your case, your quincunx is of the eighth pillar. So it has a Scorpio undertone to it. It has a eighth house undertone, a Plutonic undertone to it. So Mars is kind of talking to Saturn in your life and your experiences and your in your chart. And especially at that time, it was saying, we have to kill or transform some aspect of self completely.

In order to belong inside of these current rules or norms or structures or hierarchy. Now, this is Mars in Virgo that you have here in the fourth house. Virgo is associated with a sixth pillar. We already talked Chiron. Mars is directly connected to your Chiron, directly by a waxing semi-sextile aspect, which gives it a pillar two.

Undertone. So Ceres Taurus, the second house. So there's something about like this double feature around physicality, around the earth energy. You mentioned being overweight as a child, right? So there's this energy about density being part of it, or or even very physically weight, weight being a earth topic, like, and not even like body weight, just like literal.

thickness of energy, of frequency. You know what I'm saying? that energy

Kelsey (55:48)

yeah.

Laurel Kassor (55:48)

was built in too, into this baseline and it kind of populated around you This is Mars in the fourth house. So Mars wants to like take action and it wants to do something and it wants to fight for something and it wants to

Start something and initiate, But what it wants to initiate is safety, protection, belonging, and it wants to do that through the vehicle of Virgo, which is doing it correctly, making sure we have all of the processes right, that we have the right methods, that we're taking care of like the body in a lot of ways. This could be maybe.

something of maybe diet culture began f in your life in some way or were like literally starting to notice and take action. That's the thing I'm kinda getting at, taking action on it. Cause this is Mars saying, hey, we're gonna start moving something around this thing we have with what are we worth? Because that's a pill pillar two thing. So it has a lot to do with the density and the Taurus stuff and food and

worth and value

Kelsey (56:52)

Well, and when you talk about those years between like nine and 14, right? When I turned four, like the, I think the summer that I turned 15, my mom had lost 50 pounds on like a,

a diet, on some sort of a diet, lifestyle. And then

Laurel Kassor (57:09)

Mm.

Kelsey (57:10)

I asked her, cause I was like struggling. I said, can you teach

Laurel Kassor (57:14)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (57:14)

me?

I asked her, she didn't push this on me. Like, so she would just like give me tips like, oh,

and if you want this, like you can switch out, have a salad with your chicken tenders if you want chicken fingers or if you, know, whatever, right? Like just small things. And I lost 40,

Laurel Kassor (57:29)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Kelsey (57:31)

50 pounds moving into high school. So, so

Laurel Kassor (57:33)

Wow.

Kelsey (57:35)

that transformation, like my Mars, like literally when we talk about,

cause I was like, I was like on that elliptical going for walks, like really watching my, like watching what I ate in a positive way, but that.

Laurel Kassor (57:48)

Yeah.

Kelsey (57:48)

That

shifted throughout my life, like that relationship with that food and like, you know, like all of that, like that's kind of like been something, a theme in my life of like, okay, it's almost like having peace with my relationship with like

Laurel Kassor (58:04)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (58:06)

food, movement, all of that. That's been kind of what I've been working on.

Laurel Kassor (58:12)

That's so interesting. Thank you so much for sharing that. Yeah, I did not know that. That is a perfect representation of what I was saying when I was like, there's something between your Mars and Saturn that has to do with annihilating something or ending something and transforming something. And I have seen pillar eight show up in combination with pillar six before. So refinement meaning alchemy.

And show up as massive weight loss for people, as a way of literally shedding the thing it to correct a process. So it's so very interesting. and it probably taught you a lot about discipline in that process and a lot about self-control. And again, this is Mars in a sextile.

A waning sextile to your Mercury. So we had mentioned it up at the very top because that was the first time you met Mars. And it was like, if I if I scream, nothing happens. No one's doing anything. How do I like what do I need? What do we need to learn in order to make that happen? And now we're back here. And it's interesting because you brought up the voice again. You're like, because I was overweight, I felt like no one was listening to me, like no one could hear me. And I felt invisible. Your Mars is also connected to Uranus Neptune.

Of there as well. There's the invisible. And then here also is this energy around the disruption. There's the Uranus. There's the waning sextile. to Mercury, where it is like this ability to actively disrupt the thoughts and therefore redirect the action and tweak the action. Your Mars is in Virgo. So it is about like actions to tweak, actions to tweak, actions that adjust.

actions that diagnosed. You meant you said it yourself. Small action. It was just these small things that I would start doing. Tiny things. Itty bitty bitty bitty things.

Kelsey (59:57)

Yeah, just making the best

choice in the moment. That's kind of what it was. Like it was small.

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:00:03)

That's on your Chiron being the one in charge of your Mars. Because your Mars is in Virgo, it looks to your Chiron and Leo for advice. And your Chiron and Leo said, we have learned about preparing our performance. We've learned about making decisions. We prep we're practicing making decisions, and we're gonna adapt you in Mars.

Kelsey (1:00:27)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:00:28)

To our process here, and we're gonna use you as a vehicle for us to keep practicing decision making by action taking, by impact making. And that's another important thing about Mars. you know this because we have worked together in a business capacity when I read your chart So we would have talked about Mars and how part of the impact that you bring to the world is being able to take practical actions that help people feel safe in making changes.

You just told us why you were made to do that work. Like you have literally, you literally just did it when you shared that

Kelsey (1:01:02)

you

Laurel Kassor (1:01:03)

little tiny piece of your story. Because you've been practicing this with diligence since at least before you were in the double digits. that's really, really interesting. Okay. There's more we could say. This is always the thing. It's just like, there's more that we can say there.

I really do wanna get to Pluto here, but there is Jupiter in between. So we have Jupiter

Kelsey (1:01:24)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:01:24)

at about sixteen.

it's in Libra, so this could be a first romance. this could be a relationship. It's it's in the fifth house, which is why I'm like, there's something maybe something about courtship, or it could be friends, it could be performances again, or pulling back into some pillar five territory, with the fifth house.

Kelsey (1:01:43)

So when you think well my Jupiter's in Libra is that correct? Yeah, like it's

Laurel Kassor (1:01:47)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:01:47)

so to me I kind of how do I put this? losing weight and I learned how to do makeup I I changed my yeah I suddenly was not

Laurel Kassor (1:01:55)

Changed your the attention you were getting. Okay,

Kelsey (1:02:01)

I suddenly was not invisible I suddenly

Laurel Kassor (1:02:03)

Mm. that must have been very drastic feeling.

Kelsey (1:02:06)

It was just like like I was like

what's going on? my goodness. I'm getting attention that I had never received before and I didn't know what to do with it. I was like, goodness. like, you know, I think a lot of kids go through that at like 11, 12, 13, little crushes, but like mine was like that. They started at 16. That's kind of what

Laurel Kassor (1:02:24)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:02:25)

it happened for me. and I learned, like I was obsessed with

I actually spent some time in the beauty industry as well. did makeup, I've done bridal makeup. I was self-taught, I watched a lot of YouTube videos on how to do makeup, and I became very skilled at doing that. My appearance became important at 16, I'd say. My appearance and how

Laurel Kassor (1:02:45)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:02:47)

people treated me because of my appearance became important at

that age. Or

Laurel Kassor (1:02:50)

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:02:52)

I realized how it opened doors, if that makes sense.

Laurel Kassor (1:02:56)

That makes complete and absolute, utter absolute sense. wow, does that make sense? For so many reasons. This is a combination of multiple pillars as they always typically are, but we are seeing heavy themes repeated through here. we're seeing this validation aspect of Pillar Five come through and this recognition aspect and this being seen and this being witnessed and this being like, who? Me.

Me, the individual, uh-uh, yeah. Come through and it's meeting a bit of pillar seven as well, who we've met in the form of oppositions only so far, pretty much. a little bit of Venus with the teacher story that you shared there,

But here we're seeing this energy come in through Jupiter, who is the planet of reach and expansion. I like to think of them as a magnifying glass. Whatever Jupiter touches is gonna get bigger and more.

I also like to think of him as the Kool-Aid man, like busting in the wall and be like, hey, I'm Jupiter. Yeah. Like slashing his Kool-Aid all over the place. Yeah, and it's funny too, because

Kelsey (1:03:56)

Yeah, it's that energy. Yeah. Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:04:02)

Jupiter in like pillar nine represents religion and belief systems. So like literally drinking the Kool-Aid. Jupiter's the Kool-Aid man. Anyway. Jupiter in Libra it's going to expand a sense of

Wanting to relate, a desire to relate, the processes of relating and companionship and attraction as well as polarity. This is a polarity pillar, right? But in the fifth house, it's gonna bring in this validation thing. So Jupiter's gonna be like, hey, what are our beliefs around how fucking hot we are, bitch? Like, like how what are we attracting to us and and watch us get validated in it? And this was a moment where that was magnified.

So it's actually really interesting as we're hearing you tell your story. It seems like it goes in these massive waves where it started very heard, very seen, very validated, very witnessed. Mommy was always there, and we were always with mommy. And we were learning the way the world worked was through having this caring, nurturing force around us. And then

We learned, it's not always there, and now I can't be heard at all. And then we went back up again when the cousins did our photo shoot and we made friends and we were seen and we were validated again. And then it went back down again after the word when our sister was born. We had to learn how to share, and then it's like not all about me. then we do things wrong sometimes and we learn about that.

attention

Right, where there wasn't attention before. And so it is bringing in at that time, learning how to balance these beliefs about like, okay, I'm still exactly who I am.

But these people seem to be seeing somebody else.

What the fuck does that mean about the choices I start making and what does those choices start to say about who I am expanding into? So I'm curious if you have any thoughts or feelings about any of that

Kelsey (1:06:19)

Yeah, I think, yeah, it's super interesting that like, when I think about the waves in my life, it literally has been waves. It's been

Laurel Kassor (1:06:28)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:06:29)

intense periods of like swinging up and down and kind of like expansion in a good way or, you know, maybe some tough lessons learned. But that age, yeah, that's super interesting about, I always felt there was almost a little bit of like anger within me, like,

Laurel Kassor (1:06:44)

Mm.

Kelsey (1:06:45)

hey.

I'm the same person I was. I'm just as nice, just as kind, just as smart, just as funny. Why are you treating me like I'm a completely different person? Right? It's like,

Laurel Kassor (1:06:56)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:06:57)

okay, it was kind of like, well, what the heck, right? was almost like I saw a little bit of

like the dark parts of like how people operate in a way too. It kind

Laurel Kassor (1:07:06)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:07:06)

of shone that light on okay, like, hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:07:11)

It it

if if I'm interpreting it correctly, it it sounds like it gave you a full spectrum look at what it is to g swing from one side of the pole to the other and to see the dis is disparage the right word? It's the disproportion.

Kelsey (1:07:29)

Yeah, yeah. How like maybe

like how people put so much stake in appearance and like

Laurel Kassor (1:07:36)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:07:36)

how like certain people, not everybody, there was people who treated me the same throughout, right? It's, they were like, there's good people in my life. I want to make that clear. But objectively, like even strangers treat you nicer when you're, maybe a little bit more, how do we put this, like palatable.

Laurel Kassor (1:07:54)

That's a way of phrasing Libra energy of pillar seven energy that I use often is palatable. It it there is something about the palatability, about being accommodating. I think people really associate that pillar seven energy, Libra Venus, the seventh house, the opposition, with people pleasing. I really wanna emphasize here that like I view that as the shadow.

the shadow side of the spectrum of that energy is people pleasing everyone and not your people.

Kelsey (1:08:22)

reading me to filth here. Like it's 1000%. I was like, okay, suddenly there's eyes on me that weren't before. How am I doing? I nice enough? Am I accommodating enough? I, you know, like all these things, like I care, you know, I care about other people's feelings and am I hurting their feelings

it became

a wider audience, if that makes sense, like you're trying to please more people

Laurel Kassor (1:08:50)

It makes so much sense because I know we haven't gotten there all the way yet. but I'm so glad we actually stopped at this we pit we fit started Jupiter part of me was like, just go to Pluto, it's gonna be juicy. But no. I'm glad we stopped here because this is what happened, you know, we're we're new-ish friends. We've known each other for a few months, but we met I met you right when your podcast had started to get more visibility.

and had started to get more reach and more expansion and new eyes on you and new people in your audience, you know? And so like as you are saying this in reference to

becoming palatable in some way and the noticing of that from back in high school, that it has played forward again into your podcast experience of now, which in which you are doing with a partner, by the way, right? Like so you have a c you have a co-host, which is that Libra partnership, the expansion through the polarity and the attraction and the bonds that we're making. And when we were in high school, we were learning about it through like, dating.

I'm attractive to others now.

I get to be attracted to others now. or they get to be attracted to me now, or like whatever that was. And now it's like rolling forward into this other version of like, okay.

We have new eyes on us. What are they going to expect from us? What are they seeing in us? Like how do we keep this balance? Can you talk on like what that experience has been like of your podcast getting a little more of eyes on it in reference to kind of some of these old energies that we've pointed

Kelsey (1:10:15)

Yeah,

Laurel Kassor (1:10:16)

at?

Kelsey (1:10:16)

well, my podcast, like Tarot Tales, my friend Heather, Heather Schultz, she and I started this podcast back in January. And our first two episodes, we kind of just kept it to YouTube. We recorded live. And so we record live every Wednesday and we kept those episodes just on YouTube. And then I think about three or four episodes in Heather being the

Like she's just amazing. Like she was like, need more reach. Like let's, I'm going to start editing these and putting them on podcast platforms. And I remember the first week we had been across all platforms, we had uploaded Heather had uploaded it and we were getting more reach. We started charting in countries around the world and

I kind of was like very shocked that that happened,

Laurel Kassor (1:11:03)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:11:04)

that it took off so quickly in certain places. And yeah, we're still relatively small, there are enough listeners that we're gaining traction, right? So that really was exciting and also terrifying at the same time. I was like, there are people listening to what I'm saying. And before I could kind of just be like, who let you?

who's gonna hear this and now I'm like people are hearing this so it was very it was exciting there was expansion there I could feel it but I also was like alright how do I want to show up how like what is my voice what is my story what do

Laurel Kassor (1:11:43)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:11:44)

I want to put out in the world because there are people consuming right

Laurel Kassor (1:11:47)

Mm-hmm.

juicy. no doubt about it. That it this is a hundred percent a play forward from these earlier patterns and these earlier themes about like, how o how am I being consumed? how am I expressing myself? And how is that being reflected and related to by the people around me?

you mentioned this in part of the reach has been international. And Jupiter, this planet of reach, literally the planet of the reach pillar, does represent international things going global, you know? so I think that that's really interesting because it must have also felt like being in foreign land when you went from being invisible to being seen. And so now even just that as a

Perception as it's rolling forward. And we're seeing how you were able to navigate the hell out of that. And now we're expanding what it means to make decisions in a way that feels good to who you are choosing to be and as a person. Does that make sense?

Kelsey (1:12:45)

Mm

hmm. No, it's very much linked. And even just down to it, the Jupiter and Libra, that partnership, right? Like Heather

Laurel Kassor (1:12:53)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:12:54)

and I are my podcast, like it's it's been very much a partnership, right? So that expansion through working together with somebody and that consciousness of what are we putting out the world and whose whose

Laurel Kassor (1:13:04)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:13:05)

eyes are on us or whose ears are on our on our voices, right?

Laurel Kassor (1:13:08)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

that reminds me. this is just a super fun fact. I think you'll really appreciate since hearing and listening and voice and feeling heard is a large theme in your story and in your soul's arc. cancer has to do with the ears and listening. your cancer rising, your cancer mercury.

Kelsey (1:13:25)

Mmm, very cool.

Laurel Kassor (1:13:29)

because when people feel cared about

They also tend to feel listened to. And when you get in arguments with your significant other about like you're you're not listening to me. I don't feel like you're listening to me. part of what we're actually saying underneath it is I do not feel cared for right now. I do not feel supported right now because I don't feel listened to. that's just a super interesting connector piece for the echo of this.

part of the narrative that started one way, but you are clearly demonstrating as you tell your tale how you've been able to shift the perspectives on some of that. So the last planet, that I really do want to cover and hear about is Pluto here. So this Pluto moments tend to be pretty memorable, especially if they come

A little bit later the Pluto moments do tend to be big, they tend to be what can be considered traumatizing. It depends obviously on the person and the events, etc. but that is one of crisis is one of Pluto's significations. And so our Pluto moments tend to be very formative.

Sometimes and often on this podcast so far, they've actually shown up as life and death experiences, near death experiences. This is literally exactly on 20 years old, where it falls is like right there. This is in Scorpio.

Which kind of turns up the die a little bit on the depth and potentially the extremity of the events. Pluto events do tend to be kind of heavy. Like I mentioned. This does seem to also relate back to some of the Chiron stuff from the performance or from the presentation or from being seen.

when you were younger, around like what was that we were saying, like seven or eight So this kind of loops back to some of that same being witness doing something wrong, being seen, doing something wrong. And then the Plutonian aspect of it could be a sensation of being punished for it or something outside of our control happens. But it tends to be a pretty notable experience So is anything coming to mind?

Kelsey (1:15:33)

I'd say university, like that's kind of when I was in university and nothing like there's no like significant like when I think about It'd be about 2013. I'd say I'd say about that year. I'm 33 now going on 33.

That was a tough time, like my uncle died suddenly.

Laurel Kassor (1:15:57)

Okay.

Kelsey (1:15:57)

remember, yeah, and yeah, it was very unexpected. And it was like a car accident. It was very tragic. Had a big impact on my family. I'd say

Laurel Kassor (1:16:06)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:16:07)

that loss was probably kind of like coincided with kind of feelings of

not inadequacy, but like I was on the wrong path in life or like

Laurel Kassor (1:16:17)

Mm.

Kelsey (1:16:17)

not not knowing where I was going. Like I wasn't enjoying university.

I wasn't enjoying life at that point. It was really, that was like between the ages of like 18 and like 21 were really tough times. It's like

Laurel Kassor (1:16:33)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:16:33)

I, my, and it's funny because

I'm glad I went to university and I'm glad I went and pursued. got two degrees. I, you know, did the thing. I, I'm happy. learned skills, but I never plan to do that. If that makes sense. my

parents were like, no, you have to go to school. You have to pick something. And I went and did a year of general studies and then I kind of felt pressured. Okay. I got to pick something. Whoa. It was like, okay, I've got to pick something. And that was about the age of 19/20 And I

Laurel Kassor (1:17:04)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:17:05)

wasn't.

feeling fulfilled or satisfied or how do I put this? It's kind of like a period of time in my life where I wasn't doing well.

Laurel Kassor (1:17:15)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:17:16)

I was looking for external ways of coping, if that makes sense.

Laurel Kassor (1:17:22)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:17:23)

It was just a tough time. There's no real exact moment I can think of other than that tragic death.

But it's not like him and I were close. Of course I did. I was upset,

Laurel Kassor (1:17:33)

Right.

It sounds like potentially that death might have been a tripwire for an existential reflection period.

Kelsey (1:17:43)

Yes,

like where am I going?

Laurel Kassor (1:17:46)

mortality became real, in in

Kelsey (1:17:48)

Yes.

Laurel Kassor (1:17:48)

a sense.

Kelsey (1:17:49)

And then I had an awakening at like 2021. like it

Laurel Kassor (1:17:52)

yeah. Okay.

Kelsey (1:17:54)

was my, I'd say that's my first like spiritual kind of awakening was that cause I'd say 20 was like the setup and then

Laurel Kassor (1:18:02)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:18:02)

21 was like, okay. Like, you know, like the,

Laurel Kassor (1:18:06)

Yeah.

Kelsey (1:18:07)

the spa bubble that you wake up in sometimes is like when you go through your, you're like, life is grand. Life is beautiful.

Laurel Kassor (1:18:13)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:18:13)

Right? Like,

I remember that's when I first was introduced to tarot and to astrology. And that's kind of where my skills started to develop a little bit. But I'd say that age from like 18 to 21 was tough. It was like a tough

Laurel Kassor (1:18:28)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:18:29)

time for me. I had a lot of learning to do dealing with life and death, mortality, pathways forward, and kind of like my first reckoning of like, what am I doing with my life? Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:18:39)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. That checks that checks out, yes. and honestly, good on you that

the Pluto experience directly did not have a near death experience

But this would check out because this is Pluto's square year Chiron again. So it brought back this I mentioned, the performance energy of being prepared. And it'd kind of be like, You did all this preparing for school, but like are you prepared for life? You're not prepared for your own life is kind of what I'm hearing in between the lines of what you're saying. Does that hit?

Kelsey (1:19:09)

Yeah,

well, it's like I did all this work to get good grades and to get into university and I hate it.

and I don't want to, like, I don't want to be here, like, you know, like, and

Laurel Kassor (1:19:21)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:19:22)

I wasn't sure how I would use my degrees. Like, I was kind of like halfway through my degrees and like, I was like,

Laurel Kassor (1:19:28)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:19:28)

dang, like, am I gonna actually utilize these, right? It was kind of a crisis of like

purpose.

Laurel Kassor (1:19:35)

yes, that would be where that crisis is. It's it's where that Chiron, who again, if you r recall I was saying like this is the energy, this pillar six energy is about the process of process, dude. It's about the practical, functional, capable, useful.

thing to do. And your Chiron again is in Leo. And so like what happened was again, we picked out that moment of the presentation and you learned that like, life's got a lot of rules you got to prepare for. You better get familiar with that shit and practice making good decisions. And then you're finding here that you did that. You did that. And that it didn't actually prepare

Prepare you for understanding what processes did you actually want to be applying and using in your life and in your world? and so it sounds like the crisis was like, I was making all of these decisions and I thought that they were the right decisions, but they're not actually that useful to me. It turns out when I check in and dig up and kind of excavate.

myself and what what I want to choose and validate. so that square to Chiron again is this crisis of service in a sense. It's this crisis of refinement. It's this crisis of I thought I made the right decisions and I'm finding that my life is not going the way that I thought it would

hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:21:00)

It was, there was a disappointment. There was disappointment. Like this isn't what I thought it was going to be. Like I thought

it was going to be fun and fulfilling and exciting. And I kind of like pulled myself up and just was like, do it girl. Like, you know, let's finish. And I ended up getting better grades, better, like a better experience. that time, like, whoo, like I had a lot of like,

introspection and like a lot of dissatisfaction to work through.

Laurel Kassor (1:21:26)

this square between them, it has a pillar 10 undertone. And so that's where that purpose comes in, that's where the discipline comes in, that's where those bootstraps came in, that's where this just fucking succeed thing comes in. and you had mentioned it earlier, but I'm gonna bring it back to roost here. What does success mean to me? Right? You had said that up at the top. You had to redefine some of what success means to you. And so it's like

Saturn's not involved in this aspect here. this is not happening in your tenth house and neither of these planets are in Capricorn. However, there is still a conversation and big plot point going on between Chiron saying, Are you practiced enough to be successful? And Pluto going, What are you gonna fucking evolve?

In the process of becoming practical and useful. And like, what are you willing to again annihilate, shed, metabolize? I think is a very powerful word to use in your story. especially with the way you you incorporate the practical, grounded, bodily aspects of the spirit, body, mind, And so I think that it's just really interesting that like that was that moment and it you overcame it, which is such a

Fucking Plutonian thing to do when Pluto meets the 10th house, like when eight meets 10, it is about like, do I have the discipline to go into myself, excavate everything, and then rebuild a new structure out of it and make that my practice, like a part of the practice in a sense. yeah, sounds like you did it.

Kelsey (1:22:55)

Yeah, you said, my life has been in waves of okay, rebuild, rebuild, rebuild, do it this way, do it

Laurel Kassor (1:23:00)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:23:01)

this way. that doesn't work anymore. It's like, yeah,

Laurel Kassor (1:23:03)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:23:04)

it's this collapse of things, but then I rebuild stronger. my life is a series of transformations. That's kind of how I put

Laurel Kassor (1:23:10)

Yes.

Kelsey (1:23:11)

it. Like my mom was always like, you when things happen to you, they really happen. They really happen to you. I'm like, yeah.

and it's about not about what happens to you. It's what you do with it, right? In a lot of ways.

Laurel Kassor (1:23:21)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And

to hearken back to your sun-moon opposition, that baby does a lot of heavy lifting, I think, in your ability to hold the experience and a perspective about it at the same time. And that's a trait that takes balancing, right? That's a practice in its of itself. a big part of how I practice astrology is that I really believe all of Earth is a practice. Like, I think Earth is a very pillar six thing.

Experience.

Kelsey (1:23:47)

thousand

percent agree yeah like you come here to live and learn and sometimes you teach sometimes

Laurel Kassor (1:23:49)

Like, like, yeah, you're just refining

and doing it again and refining and doing

Kelsey (1:23:56)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:23:56)

it again. And it's just like, I just feel like this is such a pillar six experience, a very chiron experience. and so to see the ways that you've been able to take Chiron and Mercury, because this your story is like very twofold. Like there are

How do I want to say this? Like, it's really interesting because the way that I practice is like there are 12 pillars, there are 12 themes, and we all just have different recipes of them combined that up and down the prominence of different stories that get told. I remember being like a seven-year-old child and thinking just pontificating to myself in a car ride.

Which is where I did a lot of my deep thinking as a child, that like there is no original stories, they're just combinations of other pieces. And I remember thinking that I was like a baby child and thinking, wow, that's so interesting, which means there's infinite stories because they're all just they already exist, but just in different ways. And now and I you are shaking your head so hard, and now I see and understand the Aquarian moon.

the Aquarian moon means and certain like Uranian and Pillar Eleven things and I'm like, my god, that was like so fucking Uranus of me. Like that was like so fucking Pillar Eleven of

Kelsey (1:25:11)

It's true.

Laurel Kassor (1:25:12)

me.

Kelsey (1:25:12)

Well, I remember thinking something not similar, but like of the same vein of like, like very early on being like, everybody has a different story.

when you come out of like a situation, everybody has a different story about it. Like I remember, but it's the same thing, but it's different lenses, different place. Like I

Laurel Kassor (1:25:32)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:25:32)

remember having that thought at like, like four, like five, like

Laurel Kassor (1:25:35)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:25:36)

really, like really young. I was like,

Like, you know, so I get it, like that, like kind of that, that perspective of like, you know, how other people experience things. Like I was always very in tune with that.

this is their experience. This is, you know, we both, the same event happened, but we both, even talking to my siblings about our childhood, right? It's like, and we grew up in the same house,

yeah, it's just, the perspectives kind of like you said, the different pieces that come together.

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:26:04)

it's exactly that.

And this way of looking at astrology helps us understand like no wonder you've made a point out of using your voice and affirming other people and using theirs and helping to can connect the dots and put practical pieces into place so people feel prepared for their transformations.

Right, and feel supported and cared for in those transformations and understand the relationships with the you know, finger quotes the invisible parts of life. Like your story is constructed.

So much of various aspects of pillar three and the the echo energy and the communication energy and a lot of pillar 10 with the authority and the structure and the succeed, and of course, pillar six with all that like various Chiron and self-expression. So it's like these different things have all come together to create

this incredible arc of your journey and how you've been able to take these things that were once really.

challenging for you at various points and transmute them to get the memos of the experiences and now like have a platform where not only are you visible but you're also validated you're also seen you're also co creating and cooperative which we already acknowledged earlier is a big part of the balance balancing the moon if you will with with the sun right

and it's just super, super, super cool to see. So thank you so much for sharing your story with us, Kelsey.

Kelsey (1:27:39)

goodness yeah that was that was so interesting so interesting and you like those points were just like they came right to me as you talked through them so obviously they were very very influential so I feel very

Laurel Kassor (1:27:51)

Like that's what I keep finding. Like I keep when

I first started you doing it this way, I was like, this might work, this might not work. Like going planet by planet. but I there hasn't been a single person yet who hasn't been like, no, I know exactly what you're talking about. And I'm like, shit, cool, neat. And it's like as I've done this with myself, I know exactly what I'm talking about too.

and I don't remember like a whole heck of a lot of my childhood, but there are certain points and I'm like, man, why does that like one memory stand out? And then I go and I look in the chart

Kelsey (1:28:19)

still think about that camera presentation. still comes up. Like I'm still like, like I'm like, those feelings arise every once in while. It's like that performance anxiety, right? It's so it's something.

Laurel Kassor (1:28:31)

It sets the template. And

that remember, that's the Chiron thing. And so, this Pluto energy that came later when you went to college and you were on your own. And my god, there my god. Ha ha. The way that like things will circle back and land a little bit later. you were on your own. You didn't have instructions, you showed up to college. And we're like, I hope I hope this goes well. Boy, howdy, I hope this goes well. And then you get there and people die.

it's a hearken back to that feeling like I'm so humiliated for trying for showing up and doing doing my best at this thing and doing it wrong, I feel like I'm gonna die. And then it like again, this is just symbolism, right? We're just seeing the th a symbolic theme.

Kelsey (1:29:07)

Yeah, it wasn't flowing.

It wasn't flowing. Like I wasn't, I didn't feel I was progressing at that point in my

Laurel Kassor (1:29:11)

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:29:13)

life. I felt like I was kind of like, then like, and then suddenly it was like that transformative aspect of Pluto. It makes sense because I did use it. did use like that. Like it was very much a shift in my life towards, okay, girl, go get her. Like, you know, it's, yeah. And then the rest is kind of history, right? Like

Laurel Kassor (1:29:30)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (1:29:32)

leads me to now.

Laurel Kassor (1:29:34)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. man, this has been so much fun. I could talk to you for hours. I really, really could. There was so much stuff I was like, man, I want hear more. So thank you for spending your day with us. And tell us where can people find you? How can we work with you?

Kelsey (1:29:50)

Well, you can book a reading with me or check out my website at soul light affirmations calm I also have readings on my friend Heather Schultz's website shadownshine.com We and if you want to like interact with me on a live platform We record tarot tales every Wednesday 5 p.m. Eastern Standard Time on YouTube So we go live so you can come in. Let us know you came from the podcast. I'd love to hear that

And also across social media, I create content at @soullightaffirmations That's my handle across all platforms. And every

Laurel Kassor (1:30:25)

yeah.

Kelsey (1:30:26)

Friday, Tarot Tales airs across all podcast platforms. Everywhere you can listen to podcasts. So go check us out.

Laurel Kassor (1:30:33)

my gosh, go

check them out. Go follow them. They're so fun. We're gonna have Heather on the podcast at some point too. Super duper super exciting.

Kelsey (1:30:38)

Super exciting.

Laurel Kassor (1:30:41)

So thank you again, Kelsey. I really appreciate it.

And if this episode sparked curiosity in you about your own chart, I would love to support you. I offer readings to help you dig into your soul syllabus. And you can find those resources and more on my website at soularcastrology.com. connect with me on threads at astro underscore Aries and on Instagram at soularc underscore astrology. And don't forget to stay in orbit by subscribing. Leave a comment and let me know what's landing for you, and of course,

Please sprinkle some stardust on us by sharing this podcast with the Astro Hose in your life. Until next time, Seekers, Ad Astra.