EP16 Becoming Solid in Chaos: Ceres, Somatic Healing & Attachment Repair with Sam Johnson
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EP16 Becoming Solid in Chaos: Ceres, Somatic Healing & Attachment Repair with Sam Johnson
What happens when the survival strategies that once protected you start getting in the way of the life, relationships, and business you want to build?
In this episode of Made for This, Laurel Kassor walks the birth chart of somatic business and relationship coach Sam Johnson, founder of The Alchemy of Truth, for a raw conversation about attachment, grief, self-trust, nervous system healing, and becoming solid in the chaos.
Sam shares how early experiences of loss, instability, and relational rupture shaped her path toward somatic healing—and how she eventually turned that lived wisdom into work supporting high-achieving leaders, founders, and women who are ready to stop overfunctioning and start living with more intimacy, impact, and embodiment.
As Laurel explores Sam’s chart, they unpack the themes beneath her Virgo Sun, Aries Moon, and Capricorn Rising: refinement, resilience, control, relationship patterns, existential fear, and the deep work of transforming pain into purpose.
If you’re drawn to somatics, attachment healing, astrology, personal development, trauma-informed leadership, or building a business that actually feels good in your body—this one is for you.
✨ In this episode:
Why Sam's earliest experiences of security, nourishment, and care left a lasting imprint on her nervous system
How body-based trauma work helped her stop looping in therapy and start actually completing the story her system was holding
The connection between death fear, control, and the need to make life feel predictable when it never was
What Sam’s Aries Moon and Mars reveal about urgency, protection, and navigating chaos
The role of Pisces, Neptune, and the twelfth-house themes of grief, faith, surrender, and the unknown
How Chiron and sixth-house themes connect to healing practices, refinement, and making meaning through service
Why her relationship with religion, identity, and truth changed so dramatically in her teens
How her salon, relationships, and periods of chaos became turning points that eventually led her into refined, high-touch coaching work
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction to Astrology and Somatic Coaching
05:47 The Developmental Age Method in Astrology
08:26 Understanding Ceres and Its Influence
13:57 Exploring Early Developmental Experiences
28:25 The Impact of Loss and Caregiving
40:08 Navigating Death and Transformation
41:10 The Alchemy of Truth and Personal Beliefs
43:35 Jupiter's Influence on Beliefs and Identity
50:00 Chiron's Role in Healing and Refinement
01:02:06 Exploring Relationships and Dismantling Beliefs
01:11:23 Mastery Through Experience and Transformation
About Sam Johnson
Sam is a somatic business and relationship coach and founder of The Alchemy of Truth. Drawing from somatic experiencing, early developmental trauma work and attachment repair, Sam helps clients move beyond simply understanding their patterns and towards experiencing meaningful change in the body.
Connect with Sam Johnson:
@SomaticallySam
https://alchemyoftruth.kartra.com/page/primalalchemyretreat
Connect with Laurel Kassor
Laurel is the founder of Soul Arc Astrology and host of Made for This, where she blends astrology, embodiment, and soul-led strategy to reveal the deeper blueprint behind your life.
Website: https://soularcastrology.com
Instagram: @soularc_astrology Threads: @astro_aries
Subscribe for astrology, soul-led business, self-inquiry, and conversations for practitioners, creatives, and curious cosmic humans.
Transcript:
Laurel Kassor (00:00)
Welcome to Orbit Seekers. This is episode 16 of Made for This with Laurel Kassor the podcast where soul-led practitioners, educators, and creatives come together to connect the constellations of how astrology turns from abstract insight to real-world impact when you follow your soul's arc. I'm Laurel Kassor your Astro Oracle host and the founder of Soul Arc Astrology. And today I have the somatic sorceress Samantha Johnson with me. Sam is a Virgo sun, Aries moon, and Capricorn rising.
So you know she's loaded with structure and a little bit of spice. Sam is a somatic business and relationship coach, founder of The Alchemy of Truth, and someone who is not afraid to say the hard thing while tenderly driving you towards your next big evolution. Sam supports established, high-performing founders, cultivate greater expression, and attract dream clients without selling their soul to someone else's strategy by weaving somatic experiencing, early developmental trauma healing, and attachment repair into everything.
She does. Her path to this work is one of those stories where the deepest wounds become the most precise tools, and I just know her chart is gonna show it off. Sam, thank you so much for joining me today.
Sam (01:10)
Mm, it's so good to be here. I don't think I've ever been so excited to be on a podcast.
Laurel Kassor (01:14)
My gosh, you're making me blush. Keep going, keep going. Well, Sam, I'm super excited to be here. I have had the true pleasure, of getting to experience some of your work firsthand by being in one of your challenges. And my gosh, it is you pack a lot of value into that, little bad boy, don't you? There. Mmm.
Sam (01:35)
It's hard not to, you know?
Laurel Kassor (01:37)
Sam, would you
tell us a little bit more about yourself, the work you do, and the philosophy behind it?
Sam (01:44)
Yeah, so I'm Sam. gosh, you know, my I really came to this work through the lens of relationship healing and deep kind of trauma resolution work from early developmental things in my previous life, came to this work through a pretty terrible relationship actually. And then with that brought quite
a few years of entrepreneurial experience with me. And so it very quickly transitioned into me working with entrepreneurs specifically. and really high-achieving women in this kind of pattern that I think all of us have of, you know, overdoing, over giving, overbeing. And yeah. So
Really working with the body on that. You know, I spent so many years in therapy just looping and feeling like I was constantly dragging this, like I would say this sled of my shit with me. And I'd be like, I've you know, I've done all this work and things are better, but I still feel this way that kind of sucks. everything still requires so much work. So finding somatics was really where I began to find a lot of you know, what I would call completion in a lot of
having to carry so much.
with me, feeling like I was constantly holding the weight of the world on my shoulders. and so now I'm in this place where I really bridge, you know, a lot of leadership and somatics and sometimes trauma work. It's not the main focus of everything that I do, but it is, it's in there, you know, it it can't
Laurel Kassor (03:12)
Mm-hmm.
Sam (03:13)
not be. but I work with really helping leaders to create more impact, you know, greater visibility, more in
income and also more intimacy in both their business and their relationships. and so it feels big and abstract sometimes, but there is such a through line of really cultivating self-trust and and things like that.
Laurel Kassor (03:36)
It sounds like you're really committed to making sure that not only you, but also other people, especially in high achieving positions, are really able to touch base with that inner sense of self. I mean, I know that's kind of a
what's generic way to maybe to to to boil it down because it goes so much deeper than that. But I would love to hear maybe just a little bit of of that why you believe that this work is so important.
Sam (04:03)
Yeah, you know, kind of even off that thread of what you just said, so much of
what we become as adults based on our life experience is the is a culmination of these protective structures that we build that are actually really heavy for our nervous system to carry, you know? And so ultimately when we can dismantle these kind of things and just really kind of it, you know, it isn't about just going in and you know, being authentic and meeting our true self. It is literally dismantling these these structures.
that are requiring a lot of energy for our system to hold as we move through the world.
And so it it's more so that kind of structural dismantling of these things that are keeping us from really meeting the potency of our power because our energy is being used to maintain these protective structures as opposed to really meeting the heartbeat of who we are in, you know, our mission and the things that we are doing in the world. It's when those structures have been thoughtfully
dismantled and and really been put to rest, we can we there is so much more energetic life force to really have contact with the mission and the the truth of who we are to really lead in that direction.
Laurel Kassor (05:22)
Mmm, yes, I agree so
Sam (05:25)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (05:25)
hard with that, and you are speaking
You're speaking of Aries Moon wisdom so strongly there with the holding of the life force energy. man, it's so juicy. Can't wait to get into the chart. So thank you so much for sharing a little bit about the work that you do and the rationale behind it. I'm gonna pivot us so we can get into the story of
How the stage got set for you to walk this path. and so I do use this technique, it's called the developmental age method, and it was taught to me by Glenn Perry, who was one of my professors. And essentially, what we're doing is we're looking at where different planets fall in your birth chart, and based on where they are located, there is a correlating age associated with it. And
Essentially what we're gonna do is we're gonna take a little stroll around the circle of your chart. And
as we hit these different age points, these would be points where you were meeting your energy, these these specific pieces of your energy for the first time, or of your soul syllabus for the first time. And so we kind of look at the world through that lens. and it helps us understand
What the template set to explore and uncover and evolve and unpack over the course of our lifetime. And so the first planet that falls in your chart is actually one of my very favorite ones. she's a little misunderstood, if you ask me. So my in my system, Soul A.R.C. Astrology, I do run a 12-planet system.
You can watch episode one if y'all want to know more about my system itself, but we do run 12 planets here. And so one of these finger quotes new planets that I associate into my zodiac is Ceres. A lot of folks treat her like an asteroid. I don't treat her like an asteroid. I treat her like a planet,
But she in my system, she is the planetary force of what I call Pillar Two. Pillar Two is the anchor pillar. It is the force associated with Ceres, Taurus, the second house.
and the waxing semi-sextile aspect, which is a little tiny one, 30 degree separation between planets, they all
That planet sign house and aspect, they all source their energy from this anchor essence here. So they all represent some feature of support or of security, stability, of density, of the body, of regulation, of resources. I call Ceris the money mama. She's a big old money mama because money does make us feel s secured. okay, I got what I need. that is part.
Of her thing. There's a lot of things that she covers, but she is the first planet that shows up. So we can assume that this energy was very critical in your early developmental awareness. She shows up very specifically around the age of three and a half. But I will say this it's it's the more I've been doing this through the podcast, the more I've seen that it's not just this one thing that happened at three and half, it's more a bubble.
window of time where this energy would have been very, very loud for us. So Ceres is in your chart in Pisces in the second house. So we actually have the planet of Pillar Two in the house of Pillar Two turns up the volume.
On how relevant and important and focused on sustainability, stability, sovereignty, regulation, senses, comfort, resources would be in our experiences. The interesting thing is that she's in Pisces, and Pisces is certainly a more spiritual essence in nature. It tends to have a dissolving quality to it. So, what this could signify.
Especially with it being retrograde as well, is that this could have been an event where there may have felt a loss of touch, a loss of security, a loss of resources. Again, this is through the the mind-brain perspective of a toddler.
So we we do have to hold space that this was this was baby Sam here. Does anything come to mind were you told about anything that would have to do maybe with this formative plot point?
Sam (09:37)
Yeah, for sure.
Laurel Kassor (09:39)
Okay.
Sam (09:41)
I don't know the exact age. I imagine it was somewhere around here. it might have been a bit earlier, but I really don't know. but I was disconnected from my mother and my father, and I moved in with my great grandmother, or maybe
I I don't know ex I to this day, you know, I've heard multiple stories around this. I know my body's experience of how this shows up for because I'm trained in early developmental trauma, I have a pretty good sense of what happened despite the story, essentially. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (10:16)
I this might be part of the r rationale as to what set that template right into place, yeah.
Sam (10:22)
Yeah. But
You know, my mom was in active addiction when I was young. and I was raised by my great-grandmother for until I was six when she kind of I wouldn't say unexpectedly passed. but it happened pretty quickly. And so there were kind of these moments of attachment rupture.
of you know any time that a p a child is taken from their primary attachment figure the mother essentially you know the person whose womb you were in there is a there's a huge rupture there and so i don't know if the timing of that really lines up i d to this day i really don't know and i'm not in super
close contact with really anyone in my family to ask. But I imagine, yeah, that that's kind of somewhere. Yeah. That that's kind of what's happening
Laurel Kassor (11:12)
for sure.
Sam (11:13)
there.
Laurel Kassor (11:14)
For sure. there are multiple r things that you said that would
relate very much and correlate very much with this with this essence and with this energy, even if there isn't one specific like, yeah, it was when this thing happened and my blanket was taken away from me. Right?
I will say that your north node it does come a little bit before the Ceres does. I have not been applying this technique to the North Node So
I went right to the planet here, but I mentioned this is in Pisces, right? Your your
Sam (11:41)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (11:42)
Ceres is in Pisces. One of the things with Pisces, especially I do hold the experience have of watching these energies play out in spectrums always, but usually when we're young, we are kind of getting the shit out of the spectrum. Because we're fucking young and we don't have any awareness.
To be co-creating with really
Sam (12:04)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (12:04)
at that those early phases, we're kind of truly at the mercy of our environment in so many ways and our nurture and our care in so many ways, right? And so one of the we'll say finger quotes, less desirable qualities of Pisces energy is addiction, is substance abuse, is
Sam (12:20)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (12:20)
loss and grief, and there being a vanishing or a dissolving, as we mentioned. So addiction.
is something that shows up very frequently, unfortunately, in some of the what I would call pillar 12 spectrum, which includes Pisces, Neptune, the 12th house, and the waning semisextile.
there and so what we see here is that that big rupture that you mentioned this energy when the Ceres awareness came online
It it was it was probably already kind of there, but it was whatever happened around this middling age cemented it somehow, really made it real. That's one of the qualities of Ceres in general, is I look at it very strongly as a manifestation planet. And yes, all planets manifest. Ha ha ha, sure. Of course they do. Not all of them actually have to do with the physical tangible thick.
realm of holding shit down and unchangingly in place and dependably and predictably, right? So I do think that Ceres has a lot to do with the anchoring. Hello, it's the anchor pillar, right? The anchoring of of holding things down. And so what happened likely is at this time you you're it came very clear in your awareness wait, something about my consistency is not
What it was before. I was perceiving it as maybe more stable before, but now it's dissolving. And what happens is that when we look at through and meet one of our planets, anyone that it touches in our chart also comes online. And we meet that planet through the lens of the first one. So in this case.
When Ceres came online and your awareness started to be yeah, no, that's that's our relationship with stuff and things and comfort and security and attachment. I love that you use this word. I attaching, anchoring, hello. it
Sam (14:10)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (14:10)
is the same core essence, It it did activate a pretty tight square with your Saturn and your Uranus, who are conjunct each other.
And in the 11th house and in Sagittarius and also both retrograde. So we have these three retrograde planets interacting, which I'm of the belief that retrograde planets they do the thing that they're supposed to do. They just do it different. They just do it in a way that the that the you know the standard would be huh, well, that's interesting that that that's
Sam (14:42)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (14:42)
how you experience that. Okay,
Sam (14:44)
My life.
Laurel Kassor (14:45)
Right, but they do come through. I find that they I I have a couple of retrograde planets. my Ceres were also retrograde, so I find that it's a lot of internal filtering.
First. It's a lot of I was handed this thing. It does not jive into my system in some way. And now I need to find a way to retroact my understanding around these themes or these principles or something along those lines. And so it does tend to, especially early in life, give things an interesting slant.
To them experientially. But the square aspect we're seeing here, it's an opening square. And so what that brought online is this kind of quality between Saturn and Uranus, which by the way, rules and disruption, a disruption of the rules, hello, creating a very challenging
tense connection to that sense of like, I I'm I'm secure here. I got all I need here. And this opening square, it has association with pillar four. We haven't really talked about pillar four yet, but that's the moon. That's cancer. That's the fourth house. That's this square. And so what it tells us is that the relationship between Saturn rules, authority, hierarchy,
and Ceres plus Uranus who is disruptions, unexpected things, chaos, and Ceres had a rejection undertone.
to it. It had a negle neglect undertone to it. It had a I'm not wanted undertone to it. Whether or
Sam (16:18)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (16:18)
not that was actually the true story playing out or not. this is all
Sam (16:23)
It was.
Laurel Kassor (16:24)
through the perception of a three-year-old or younger, you know
Sam (16:29)
Yeah. It's funny, you know, I've had this conversation with my mother before because she's like, you really have no idea what happened. And I'm it's it's not about that. It's about the way that our bodies remember, you know? And so what our physiology experiences as neglect can really come from so much, even if it's not intentional, right? And I think this is where so many, you know,
parent child dynamics get really confusing because it's like, well, I did my best. And that's physiologically it was not enough. You know?
Laurel Kassor (16:59)
100%. 100%. This would have been the critical event, formative event. And I mean, you obviously you knew this already, given your history with the work that you do. But it's very clearly illustrated here for us in the chart as well that this.
Disruption, which by the way, this was Uranus in the eleventh house. That's a pile up, a stack into that eleven pillar eleven, which is the awakening pillar, which is nice when it's the on the awakening side of things, but disruptive again. Electrifying, a shocking when it's on the lower tier here. So you are sitting here affirming it, it is a part of the work that you do. The body
Is the critical part of some of this formative experience. What the, what you're, and I know you just named that, but it's that is what Ceres is saying. And I want to really emphasize here that this has a lot to do with the energetic body.
Too because this is Ceres and Pisces. So this isn't just my mommy and her boobies are gone, and now my food is gone too. This
Sam (17:58)
Yes.
Laurel Kassor (17:59)
is also like, no, there's a there's was again this almost spiritual connection that was blocked. And that's one of the things Saturn does. Saturn blocks. It says, no, no, no, nay, nay, nay, deny, deny. It can do that. And then with Uranus, it can be like a sudden unexpected stop
Sam (18:15)
Mm.
Laurel Kassor (18:15)
or halt of that physical, dependable nourishment, and it just vanished and
Some of that Pisces coming in again. Now, those weren't the only ones who came online. This also activated an exact opposition to your Mercury. Your Mercury's in Virgo, it is in the eighth house. I love the eighth house. So this is really fucking relevant because number one, it's exact. We're talking this is almost.
the most exact connection in your chart, which would turn up the volume on how loud it is in our lived reality. But it is also creating immediately at the very beginning this like, we gotta balance out. We have to negotiate. We have to compromise
What the hell like, how do I process this information in a way that makes it make sense, in a way that's practical, in a way that's functional? what does it mean to me if
my consistent sources of survival, of nourishment, of stability can vanish. how do I s you know, part of me wants to say, I think because of the Saturn Square, how do I stop that from happening? How can I logic my way out of that? Now again, this is a three-year-old's perspective. So it could just be the trying to be like, but why? But why? But why? But why but why but why? But why but but I'm uncomfortable, so but why is that?
And the beginning of this, either we know and have information and data and process and practice.
going into the deep dark depths and facing, figuring out how to face some scary shit. Or we're comfortable. But it can't be both at the same time to the early experience. how does that feel?
Sam (19:55)
I mean true. And I you know, I really look at it in this way of looking at maybe that kind of balancing act of well, if it's not safe to trust that I will be held essentially, I will hold it all and I will take care of it all. And so that very Virgo aspect of codependency and
over functioning is I think what I learned from a really young age.
Laurel Kassor (20:22)
Mm-hmm. That makes a lot of sense to me. Especially with it being in the eighth house. This also is related to the the depth work of becoming trauma informed. the learning process to bridge the gap between body and and
Understanding what the data actually, how to apply the data that you receive. Because one of the interesting things about the way your chart is set up is that your Ceres is in Pisces. to me speaks to invisible senses. And so it's like you've got keen awareness of these invisible senses, these six senses, these
Not r not real, but real things the weight, you you were mentioning weight, which is usually a Saturn thing, but I just I also associate weight and heaviness with the fucking planets of density, like with the pillars
Sam (21:08)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (21:08)
of density, you know, and the fact that they're connected really creates almost a boulder effect. So it's almost like what what do you mean invisible feelings can create such a
block or of such a boulder inside of my body. And then the the journey to bridge the gap on the data to transmute. Learning the
Sam (21:28)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (21:29)
information that can be practically applied to transmute is tying in Mercury Virgo and that eighth house, which brings Pillar three, pillar six, and pillar eight together. Pillar eight becomes a very critical part of your story as we'll get into
To here in a moment, but then
Sam (21:46)
Mm.
Laurel Kassor (21:47)
the very last piece of this puzzle of this very important, very important early developmental plot point for you was that it did bring online this little cute little trine to your descendant. This nice little trine to your descendant. So even though there was definitely tensions that were built up at that time and kind of integrated into the syllabus to be here's some stuff.
We're gonna learn how to cope with, we're gonna learn how to manage, we're gonna learn how to navigate these things. It did create a nice connection to understanding how valuable and important relationships are.
Which also you have named up in your work already as a somatics and relationship coach. you
Sam (22:30)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (22:31)
there was already h hints of going going on here. And I wanna emphasize too that the opposition between the Ceres and Pisces and Mercury and Virgo up there, number one, you you said something about trust. to me, this access of Pisces and Virgo of twelve and six is always trust the process.
That is their whole fucking thing together when they are functioning as a pair together. It is trust, pillar 12 shit, the process, pillar six shit. Right. And your body is the one being like trust. And your mind's like, we gotta know process though. how
do we woo? And so this energy
Sam (23:09)
Story of my life.
Laurel Kassor (23:11)
taught you that there is a relationship between the body and the mind.
That they do indeed have a direct and polar impact on each other when not.
accommodated, accounted for, adjusted to, right? and that's part of that little Virgo tweaking. That's what Virgo does. Like if the Pisces shit, if Pillar 12 shit is anything and everything is freaking possible, man. Then
Sam (23:36)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (23:37)
the Pillar 6 shit is okay, but we have to attune to nail it down and anchor
Sam (23:40)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (23:41)
it
into the body and anchor it into reality. So just really interesting that it's despite that being obviously a tense time, an incredibly tense and potentially one of the most stressful moments of your entire life, this period, it did introduce you to this idea of there's interconnected things going on.
so before I jump us along to the next plot point, I just want to touch base. How you feeling? How you doing?
Sam (24:06)
Good, I will say, so I so I did not find out my birth time until three months ago. So my chart feels very new to me and I have only related with it in whole sign. So this is very different from what I know in my chart.
but otherwise, good. It's it's interesting to kind of think about it from this different lens and be able to see it from this different lens. So it's kind of cool.
Laurel Kassor (24:30)
Mm-hmm. Well,
that's the cool part about astrology in in general. Not even just my specific signature approach, but in general, astrology is a quantum study. which is why you can look at it from different angles. And
Sam (24:43)
Mm.
Laurel Kassor (24:43)
why you can as long as the system you're observing it is solid in its own self-organizing
Sam (24:49)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (24:50)
structures, it's gonna work because it's about how you choose to observe it.
Sam (24:57)
Yeah. So in my head I'm trying to I'm
do I need to pull my chart up
so that I have some sense of what's going on.
Laurel Kassor (25:02)
I used to do
I used to run whole sign only. I spent seven or eight years doing just Hellenistic astrology before
Sam (25:09)
Mm.
Laurel Kassor (25:10)
certain questions that I had were not being answered in ways that made any sense to me.
Sam (25:15)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (25:15)
and
Yeah, I won't get into that whole story. I talk about that a little bit on that ep that first little pilot episode. But yeah, it's I just started once I started doing it this, I just couldn't unsee it. And it
Sam (25:26)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (25:26)
started to yield really empirical, observable, wow, that is so on the nose, on the nose, on the nose stuff. but yeah.
Sam (25:33)
looking my chart up in Placidas right now because I so that I have some reference point where we're talking about.
Okay. Got it. Very different.
Laurel Kassor (25:42)
When I used to run whole sign, I my my rising sign is twenty-eight degrees Libra. And so it shifted it shifts the whole chart. So when I switched back to Plastidis, it shifts my whole chart again. and again, that's just the kind of cool thing about astrology. you w you see what you are ready to see or how you choose to look at it, right? It's neat.
Sam (26:03)
It's so funny that
you say that because a couple of years ago I met with an astrologer and did a birth time rectification.
Laurel Kassor (26:08)
Mm-hmm.
Sam (26:09)
And it was one of the most powerful experiences of my life. And sh so she pegged me as a Pisces rising and still, you know, north and south node in Pisces and Virgo. And but it was the difference of that that axis of
what was happening for me relationally at that point and this invitation to come back to myself. And I was really at this turning point in my attachment j healing journey and things that. And it it's interesting because it was the the wrong time technically, but it was the thing that really encouraged me to it's time to come back to you and you know, really claim my own identity in relationships again. And it was I it
to this day out of all the work that I have done was one of the most powerful experiences. And even though it was not right. And so she said that she was like, you know, this is going to be one of those things where there's there's potential that this chart might all not always be true for you,
Laurel Kassor (27:06)
Mm-hmm.
Sam (27:07)
it I so I think to that piece of you see what you're ready to see and and the medicine comes in the time that it's meant to is I very much agree with
Laurel Kassor (27:14)
Absolutely.
Sam (27:15)
that.
Laurel Kassor (27:15)
Absolutely. I've I've I've done rectifications that too. and it really is. It really is I think I think astrology is a lot of things. I think that well one of the things well let me say it this.
Not all astrologers are oracles or seers, but some of us are. And I know I say all the time, the chart is just my version of a crystal ball. it's just this thing I can ponder into to receive the information that needs to be said,
Sam (27:42)
Okay
Laurel Kassor (27:43)
you know? And so I I've having had some experiences that, it's
Sometimes it's just the vehicle to get what is
Sam (27:49)
Okay.
Laurel Kassor (27:50)
necessary, you know.
Sam (27:53)
Mm,
absolutely. Absolutely. So I'm so curious because this has my Chiron in the sixth house and not the seventh house. So I'm alright.
Laurel Kassor (28:02)
Yeah, we're gonna talk
about that. I'm really excited to get there. But before we do, we gotta activate it first. We gotta wake that bitch up first, which brings us to the next plot point. So I already
Sam (28:11)
Okay.
Laurel Kassor (28:12)
think I know what this is because you named it loosely before. But this would be around age, you know, based on this chart, which now we know also is not maybe to the ex exact moment, but close to it.
it looks like it was around four or five where there was the Mars Moon conjunction moment. Now you already mentioned that you lost your grandmother who was your primary caregiver after your mother was
Sam (28:39)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (28:39)
unable to provide the care for you as a baby.
So I am basically
Sam (28:43)
Yeah good.
Laurel Kassor (28:44)
already convinced that that's exactly what this is because this has to
Sam (28:46)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (28:47)
do with the moon. It is exactly in the same degree as Mars. They are both in Aries. And so just let's break that down a minute. The moon can be our a caretaker. It has to do with feeling safe. Whereas, and this is a super important distinction, whereas Ceres who you already met, was about feeling secure.
and held
Sam (29:09)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (29:10)
down. This is much more about feeling emotionally safe and
Sam (29:15)
Mm.
Laurel Kassor (29:16)
cared about and cared for. because things can be fed, but not loved. You know,
Sam (29:22)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (29:22)
and so that's kind of the difference there. And so the moon
Could represent certainly around this caretaking, this feeling safe, this feeling held, feeling contained, but Mars coming in and being at this moment too does in and in Aries its own sign. So we have again another stack, another pillar stack on one. Actually, this is a conjunction. So this is Mars, Aries, the conjunction all together in this one feature, which is going to turn the volume up very high on.
urgency on the the fast you said the decline happened pretty quick once it was known it was known and it happened fast right on the acceleration of there being some sort of independence factor pool coming in around care at this time
Was there is there any I mean, I you mentioned that it was your grandmother's passing already, but can you expand a little bit on what that time felt like for you and what was coming up for you emotionally if you can recall?
Sam (30:17)
Yeah.
So she was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and she passed about two weeks later. And
Laurel Kassor (30:26)
Wow.
Sam (30:27)
it was very fast. And so in this time, this was my great-grandmother. In this time, my grandmother took an early retirement from her government job and moved in
to take care of me, basically. And so it's funny because, you know, looking back, I just I remember these moments with her. I was very my grandmother was always my person, not my great grandmother, my grandmother. she just has always felt my person. And her and I were just always really connected. And
I remember having this overwhelming fear that she was gonna die.
And it's interesting because my entire life I have felt that way. And, you know, as I've gotten older, we're not really as close as we used to be. She moved across the country, started a whole new life. It's neither here nor there. But for my whole life, I have been like, you know, my gosh, she she's gonna die. And I remember a couple years ago, getting to this point where I was she was only
In my mom had me at 26, she had me, or she had my mom at 18. She was only in her late 40s at this point. And I remember I had no concept of age or anything like that, but I just remember this fucking incredible fear of her passing. And I remember a couple years ago being we talked about it, we would talk about it so much.
And where she wanted to be buried, what song she wanted. And I remember it I I just thought she was old and she was gonna die soon. It didn't occur to me.
Laurel Kassor (31:51)
Yeah.
Sam (31:52)
She's still alive. She's in her 80s.
Laurel Kassor (31:53)
Ha ha.
Sam (31:54)
Like when I tell you, I couldn't sleep by myself at night. I was just terrified that something was going to happen to her.
And it didn't occur to me until just a few years ago, what was really going on there around that fear of losing her. And
Laurel Kassor (32:07)
Mm-hmm.
Sam (32:07)
what that that was really rooted in was that loss of, you know, who was essentially my parent. And you know, the things that we experience as children, looking back on them, it's like, this makes so much more sense.
Laurel Kassor (32:21)
A hundred percent. A hundred percent. 'Cause it's it's so easy to sign things off 'cause they happened a long time ago and I barely remember or I thought I dealt with it, but
That was your first fucking rodeo, bruh.
Sam (32:31)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (32:32)
this is where we learn how to human is in these super early experiences. And it makes a lot of sense that the death fear would start to compile here because you this is also kind of when you would have had the first well, I mean I'm saying first. I don't know. It might not have been. but that I'm hearing about f first foray into death.
actual impermanence whereas before it was disruption and vanishing and appearing and maybe vanishing and appearing and vanishing and inconsistency. This would be has almost a bit more of a permanency quality to it. This energy does activate the a square to your Neptune in Capricorn.
On the chart, we have here your Neptune and Capricorn is in the 12th house. Guess what? This is more fucking stacking of qualities. Here we have Neptune in its home house, right? So we we turn up the volume a little bit on again this vanish vanishing act energy here, this loss, this grief, this suffering, this sacrifice energy. it is in square.
with the moon and Mars. it is not the tightest square in the world, but it's still definitely notable and it
pulls in Mars, The square between them is an opening square.
And so here we go again, another little pull-in from this support.
caretaking essence and pillar to the caretaking planet again so we have more stacking of themes it's kind of like these themes won't just kind of they don't just weave together for you they do thick lines of color when they're showing up for you they're like no no no no all the way in on this essence right here and so what that opened up at that time and again this is not in the scheme of things
Not that long after your consciousness has been awoken to inconsistency of
Sam (34:30)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (34:31)
care, of dependability. Now it's like, wait, and now my emotional shit's gone too. What the fuck? And that is likely where that fear of
of grief came I mean I say to fear of grief, but that fear of just maybe even I mean death, yes, but it also gives a little bit deeper than death.
Sam (34:50)
It is. It's and
it's something that f has always felt really prevalent for me and not just death of other, but my own death. I've had a really hard time with any type of substances or things that put me in a state where I I feel like I'm going to not it's not even lose control, but it's almost the sense of
falling into this void essentially. And this is attachment
Laurel Kassor (35:13)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sam (35:15)
rooted. You know, I won't get too deep into that, but this is rooted in neg in neglect and things that. And I think this just furthered this for me. And then ironically dealt with death again in my late teens. And this is when this actually started showing up for me all the time. And so it's really interesting. I'm just putting this together, but
Laurel Kassor (35:33)
interesting that you say in your late teens, we're we're gonna walk our way there, but
I mentioned how this energy here at this moment activated the Neptune stuff and the deeper, the deeper bits beyond just no, that's scary. That's scary.
Sam (35:46)
Yeah, it's like existential.
Laurel Kassor (35:48)
and that's pillar twelve. And that is pillar twelve very much. And the control, you mentioned the word control, very Capricorn coded, very p pillar ten authority, very Saturn coded, right? So that totally makes utter and complete sense. It's we gotta fucking put some structure
Around this great unknown, if we're gonna feel safe
Sam (36:07)
Ha ha ha.
Laurel Kassor (36:08)
with it. Ooh, how we gonna navigate? And here's some of the the Aries and the Mars tied into it. How are we going to emotionally navigate? And by the way, I haven't said it yet, but the Moon Mars conjunction in Placidus is in the second house of how the fuck do we hold on? How do we anchor in? How do we soothe?
The savage beast gives a little bit of that kind of that cliche, if you will, when the beast is invisible and sad a little bit, but also scary. so that quality definitely came online. Obviously, you just named it for us, but you mentioned
In your later teens, there is something that I got my eyeballs on around the late teens or super early 20s that is connected into this energy, and that's where your chiron comes online. but for this, you know, four or five-ish moment in time, this would have activated this idea of like
We gotta there's gotta be a way to fix this. There's gotta be some kind of process that can help me hold some of these emotions. Your Chiron's in cancer, so again we have this pull pillar four thing show up. This support undertone as another essential piece of some of the energetics and how they're interacting with each other. So I won't dig too deep into Chiron yet because we're gonna get there. But what it tells us is that aga again, it's this, ugh.
What the w how are we supposed to
both accept and protect
Against these inevitabilities, these things that seem very outside of my control when it comes to what I care about and what cares about me. Right? It can it might have felt very much to the child's mind and experience, what do I keep doing wrong here? That no one wants to stay, that no one wants to be present and do navigate this thing with me. And so obviously that's very unlikely to be the the truth of it, but to you at the time, it doesn't matter what was true.
Something that may have felt true.
Sam (38:05)
Yeah, it is interesting. I can't quite put my finger on what
It was you know, I had this conversation with my therapist years ago she was like, you know, for what you've been through, it's interesting that you've not internalized most of it, that it that it most children who have been abused learn don't learn to hate their parents, they learn to hate themselves essentially, right? And there is this interesting piece where I think because I had so many caregivers who really were kind of pointing me towards the fact that like I wasn't the problem.
mother was the problem. It that that early attachment rupture really did help me create a sense of otherness of it as opposed to this is me, this is my fault. And it so it is interesting that you mention this because it I don't r remember really having this sense of like I'm the problem here in this, but more so that I can't trust other people. You know,
Laurel Kassor (38:58)
Mm-hmm.
Sam (38:59)
Yeah, it's it wasn't so much how do I move, but more so how can I control you?
Laurel Kassor (39:04)
Ooh, okay, nice. Nice nuance. Yeah, thank you, thank you. That makes sense. I didn't clock it. The your Mars is in retrograde. Too. And so again, there is this thing where it's
I said earlier, where it's okay, you would expect something
Sam (39:17)
Different.
Laurel Kassor (39:17)
to go one way and then it it it twists a little bit on you. I think you just gave us a perfect example of that. Of you being No, I was able to send it through the internal filter and f figure something out for myself about that and how I wanted to even separate my own anger.
Sam (39:37)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (39:38)
Cause that could be, you know, could be a very normal reaction to some of these early experiences with an Aries moon, with an Aries Mars, right? It could certainly be, but it sounds like you were able to at least the very least work through and work with that. And I also think that some of these these others these other features that are also happening at the same time are prompting what you said is mm, but how do I control these things?
So we don't have to worry about if I belong, who will accept me, blah blah blah.
Sam (40:07)
Exactly.
Laurel Kassor (40:08)
Pluto also got activated. This was your first little dance with Pluto, the actual planet of death, which makes sense. This was the loss of the primary caregiver. Mars moon conjunction in Aries in the second is in a opening quincunx to Pluto. AKA Moon and Mars are trying to solve the problem of death, of rebirth.
Of transformation of
Sam (40:32)
Huh.
Laurel Kassor (40:32)
the scary thing. So this is where I was like, yeah, I feel it's death, it's death for sure, but there's something else going on, and that's Neptune stuff. This is the actual kind of scary bits of death,
Sam (40:41)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (40:42)
or the scary bits of the the pain, the hurt,
Sam (40:44)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (40:46)
the the wound. I think of
Pluto, Scorpio, which you have Pluto in Scorpio as as as is wont to be of a millennial Pluto. but the eighth house and the waning quincunx. Those are also features of Pillar Eight. Alchemy. I call Pillar Eight Alchemy. Remind me what your business is named again.
Sam (41:09)
The Alchemy of Truth
Laurel Kassor (41:10)
The alchemy of truth. You have Pluto in the ninth house. The ninth house is associated with interpretations, religion, things that people take as a personal truth. Okay, so it's very interesting just to see how that lines up in a kind of almost so low-hanging, it's almost throwaway. it's just damn, well, sometimes it is that literal. But the fact that
moon, Mars, and Aries is is making this opening quincunx to Pluto says again we have this pillar six refinement undertone, this fix it undertone, this adjust it undertone, this make it work, designers make it work, undertone to it. And so there is almost this
Huh, there's a problem to solve when it comes to how we feel and how we move or how death moves around us or what do we believe happens and this is also part of that existential stuff too. I think that comes in because it has to do with not just the death, but the ninth house brings in this element of well, how do you interpret?
these things. And then when we pull in the square from Neptune, it brings in again even this bigger existential thing going on. then lastly with this aspect, your sun also got activated via a well both both types of quincunxes So on one hand the sun is like I gotta create something very practical, very useful, very helpful that's going to
help me because it is the sun it's gonna help me understand and relate and connect with what the fuck's going on in this wild ass world I find myself in. And at the same time the moon is making a a pillar eight connection to the sun. So the moon's like literally like, okay, and what are we gonna kill to do it? What are you willing to
Annihilate, what do you what emotions, what anger, specifically I'm gonna go with anger, what anger needs to be metabolized in order for these systems to be created or these techniques to be received or to be practiced.
Or whatever. And so there's a lot of stuff happening so early for you. There's a lot of very complex processes unfolding before you fucking know how to read. You know, which is pretty again, I'm gonna echo what your therapist said, pretty fucking phenomenal that you are h that you have been able to take some of these very early experiences and
truly manage them put that Capricorn shit to good use put that Saturn shit to good use and actually create structures and systems for it so before we move on to the next plot point just check in how you feeling how you doing
Sam (43:34)
I feel good.
Hanging in there.
Laurel Kassor (43:35)
Okay, so the next big one is Jupiter. Jupiter rolls up around ages 13, 14-ish.
Jupiter is in Gemini in your chart. It is in the fourth house. So we are still in the care sectors where you are still having a conversation about this pillar four support stuff, this emotional.
understanding stuff at this point right now because it is about Jupiter and Jupiter has so much to do with many a thing. Opportunity, growth, expansion. It's a very f fun and jovial energy. But it also can have a lot to do with
You know, belief and sometimes that can be good beliefs or bad beliefs, beliefs that help us or beliefs that hurt us. And so what we're seeing here is that around a this age of early teens, we'll call it, there might have been some conflicting belief stuff happening. This could have been religion related, potentially. but this is
ideas. ideas about what life is or what death is or what it all is could have been expanding at this time they could have been getting challenged at this time this activates a square to your sun your identity is what really draws my attention
this could be relational in nature as well based on the chart we're using. Your Sun is in the seventh house. So this could have to do with how do I put these ideas into practice? or realizing that the the word hypocrisy just floated into my brain. Maybe this is a period where you realize people don't practice what they preach, or something that. So is there anything that comes to mind around this age?
Sam (45:07)
Yeah, I mean my grandmother raised me to be fairly religious. We didn't go to church, but I went to Bible school here and there. I believed in God and up until I was 14, I would say. And then I met
I met a guy and I remember a very specific conversation that I had with one of his friends around this concept of God. And he he said to me, he was like, think about it. Like there's none of this shit really happened. You know? he was the Bible is just a storybook. it's a it's a cartoon. And I remember being huh. And ever since then I've been hmm.
You know, it was one of those things that it was once I lost it, I really had a hard time even you know, and I think for a really long time it really scared me, right? Because I'm like, well, you know, I I knew what happened after death before, and now I don't.
Laurel Kassor (46:03)
super juicy. couple of things popped in while you were sharing that bit of story. regarding the sun. The sun is in a guess what? Opening square, a waxing square, a pillar four square to Jupiter. Jupiter also represents grandparents, which is interesting. I meant to say this earlier that one of the pillar nine things is grandparents and
you first got introduced to Pillar 9 stuff when Saturn and Uranus in Sagittarius came online when you were three-ish range there. Jupiter itself actually represents the whole pillar does. So that's interesting that grandparents and religion tied up.
Sam (46:38)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (46:38)
But this is again in the fourth house. So what I'm ultimately getting at is that
even beyond the physical support systems of family, religion had become its own sort of beliefs idea support system.
For holding and creating a safety around the existential questions that had
Sam (46:57)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (46:58)
perked their little heads up earlier in life, and religion seemed to be a nice cradle to
Sam (47:04)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (47:05)
hold this and to protect us and our mind, because this is Gemini, right? So then our ideas around this. And then you started dating someone, Sun in the seventh house.
Sam (47:15)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (47:16)
Talk to his friend.
Sun. Sun can represent friends. the friend of the partner. straight up. It's it's wild when you get down to it, like how very every detail of everything is built into this motherfucker. It's not so. Anyhow.
He challenged your beliefs. That by
Sam (47:31)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (47:31)
the way, I will say because Jupiter's in Gemini, it carries a pillar three undertone, which is, you know, Mercury, Gemini, the third house. I call it Echo, the Echo Pillar.
And so if it's grandma had us go to church and we're doing what grandma says and we're just echoing we're back we're echoing back what we've heard, almost like the parroting back thing, then he and he's like, no, that doesn't actually practically think about it. Like
Sam (47:58)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (47:59)
you practically think about it. Is that really like do you think that that's the most like realistic thing? Does that seem like it's gonna work to you? that is so Virgo.
Sam (48:08)
It really is.
Laurel Kassor (48:10)
you are the Virgo Sun but in this story that you've told us.
so was the friend challenging the echoed beliefs of the of the grandparents from the support system that we do have that is supporting us because good lord we do want one of those
having that be challenged is really interesting because this is also again the opening square. So it has like this, huh? Well now I gotta reject religion. Hmm. So it put you on the other side of what was being rejected. I don't know if that was maybe the first like the first time or not, but it put some interesting dynamics into play for you to be like, I don't know if I
if this makes sense to me anymore and making sense is a big feature of pillar nine. It's interpretation. It's how
Sam (48:52)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (48:53)
we understand and conceptualize and our principles and our morals and our ethics, right? And one of the other things and why this likely kind of kept kind of being there for the re for the rest of your life is that this also
Activated Neptune again. Neptune again. Neptune in the twelfth in Capricorn again. With Jupiter making a opening quincunx my god, all of these freaking quincunxes all of them, almost all of them saying figure it out. You gotta figure this out.
Sam (49:24)
Ha ha ha.
Laurel Kassor (49:27)
You know? And so again, you were almost like back to square one.
What doesn't disappear on me?
Sam (49:33)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (49:33)
And that could have potentially jumpstarted you into exploration of different ideas.
Sam (49:39)
Yeah, I mean I don't know that it was instant in the exploration of what else, you know, but it was definitely there I think I spent quite a bit of time in the fear of, well, if it's not this, it can't be anything, you know. I would say probably a good ten ye ten to fifteen at least ten years in it.
Laurel Kassor (50:00)
We're gonna talk about it. It resolves. It resolves. Perfect story. Thank you so much. That was such a clear illustration of these themes
Again, this idea of and one of these common things we're seeing tie in is obviously safety, security, but also this thing around I gotta rack my brain to make this stuff work, to make my existence here work. And the body is obviously the vessel through which so much of this is happening, right? let's fast forward a little bit. Let's get to juicy baby Chiron.
Sam (50:29)
Mm.
Laurel Kassor (50:30)
here. So Chiron looks like it's arriving right around the early 20s, Chiron in my system is the planet of Pillar 6 refinement. And that coincides with Virgo and the sixth house and the opening quincunx who we have a lot of familiarity with here. you have Chiron
And cancer, so throwback to that pillar four stuff, but in the sixth house. So again, we have this idea of there's being a little stack here already right out the gate with Chiron. Chiron's trying to make it work and become skillful and practical and useful and competent and efficient and capable. It's what it loves to do.
And it's doing that in areas of life in the sixth house that have to do with routines and practices and ritual and processes. This is more about
the applying of techniques, right? So this is where areas health live because what is maintaining health other than a series of tasks that we're doing again and again and again, right? This is a really big idea of there being repetition in this energy here.
And so this could be health stuff, this could be work stuff. This time period usually coincides with, you know, what I would think of as the internship period of life, right? you're kind of you're out of s early schooling, but you're finding kind of your footing and learning the the ropes of where am I gonna belong when it comes to how where I'm useful. and that's really echoed through the cancer quality here. So this could be something along those lines where it could feel like there was
a refining happening or a crunching Chiron moments and activations can feel extremely grating. it can feel like literally being molded and punched to shit and then re-sculpted again and like getting chiseled it can be a very crunchy energy
And so this would be a moment when we would get a call back to the moon Mars stuff that opened up. This is in an exact opposition to your Neptune. So here we are, more Pillar 12 stuff. But this is Pillar 12 meeting some Pillar 6 stuff. So we are back to Trust the Process Man. There being this access going on, but this would be a moment where
Potentially some really confusing stuff may have been happening that might have been in again invisible. it could be illness again that that keeps wanting to pop into my field But yeah, I can stop yapping now. does anything come to mind? Is there anything around this this period?
Sam (52:58)
I mean, I feel like it could be a few different things to be honest with you. I think when we take a look at some of this Mars, Moon, Neptune stuff, my thought is that I was graduating high school.
Laurel Kassor (53:09)
Mm-hmm.
Sam (53:09)
I was r just about to graduate.
So I I had a a good friend in high school and we were leaving school for the day. her and her sister were in the car in front of me and there was an accident and her little sister died. And so I was the car behind them. So it wasn't just like, there's this loss, but there's like I was here. I was the one that talked to
Laurel Kassor (53:32)
Hot.
Sam (53:33)
her. I was basically the one that told her father.
it was it was pretty tr pretty horrific. I've done I've had to actually do quite a bit of work on my own processing of that. And you know, interestingly enough, kind of what you had spoken about earlier, where with this Neptune-y kind of thing is it really brought back online this fear of death for me. And
I remember that weekend. at this point, you know, I was in high school, I was smoking weed here and there. and at this point I was my good friend was with me when this happened. Her and I were together for the weekend with like a couple of our friends, and we, you know, I think we we started smoking some weed and I freaked out. Like freaked out. like, I felt like the world was taking me essentially, right?
Laurel Kassor (54:18)
Mm.
Sam (54:19)
And
Nine times out of ten, if I relate with cannabis in any way, this is what happens at this from this point moving forward. And you know, I've worked with this kind of energy through my own somatic experiencing journey. It became this, this really existential kind of fear imprint.
Of I'm falling into this hole, essentially, right? this is a thing that I constantly work with as I'm falling into the void. And so it started then in this very much more somatic way than it had in the past, where before it was very in my head that that at this point was when it became this body thing
And it it has shown up for me quite a bit in my life.
So I don't know if that might speak to it.
Laurel Kassor (55:03)
It makes
a lot of sense that that could be it for for a couple of different things here. So I do see the Chiron in a square to your moon, which automatically will pull in Mars because can't have one without the other. and so that pulls us back to the second house, to the body pillar essentially, where where it it it activates part of that awareness once more. Which then of course this is
A much more polarizing experience with the existentialism,
Sam (55:33)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (55:33)
potentially than some of the other earlier experiences with it were. Part of this is astrologically indicated,
by that Chiron opposite Neptune. that pulls in again this polarity feature, which you know, we experience
The opposition every month at the full moon, between the sun and the moon, at least, right? So we under we can understand that this means, wow, full view. See it all. Hello. Right. And so what what's happening here is, you know, forgive me everyone, but a full moon between this I've got a skill thing to implement and
the rules around loss and grief and these almost unnameable experiences. Right, which is the Neptune stuff, which is the Pillar Twelve stuff.
Really speaking so strongly to to these themes and at this point in time, this is kind of where as you described the story, you were right there, you witnessed it. you were the one who it sounds like took some action that needed to be taken in that
Sam (56:36)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (56:36)
situation, letting people know, which is not an easy freaking thing when you are in the shock of it yourself.
Sam (56:43)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (56:43)
Yeah, these are people you care about, obviously. which brings again some of this cancer stuff and this and and I think it's really important to note with pillar four stuff in general, and especially given your specific template and experiences around it, family might mean something different to you than it might mean to some other people. You
Sam (57:01)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (57:01)
know, like this friend and her sister might as well have been family potentially. Only you can answer that. I'm not saying that they were or they weren't, but I can imagine how that
devotion, that protection, that desire to care, these are my people, this happened to my people, could have been a piece of that experience for you. This pulls in also a quality of unfairness.
Too that this opposition is about, you know, it's balanced. It is an aspect that has to do with pillar seven, which Venus, Libra, the seventh house, the opposition. So there's this thing about balance. And is it fair? where's the justice in this? why her? Like, why not like these other terrible people? Right?
Sam (57:39)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (57:40)
there is almost that quality is kind of coming through too. But it does again, it activates the square where you had to do some difficult tasking.
They're both waning squares. So they both have a
Alright, I guess I'll be in charge. Undertone to them. They
Sam (57:52)
Okay.
Laurel Kassor (57:54)
both have a pillar 10 authority thing going on with them. So it was kind of okay, how am I gonna care for these people I care about? I'll I'll take the action. I'll be the one to do the hard thing.
Sam (58:08)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (58:08)
And that was actually in the freaking intro we have for you too. you're not afraid to grab someone's hand tenderly and take them through, and while they do while you while you
Help them do the fucking hard thing. And
Sam (58:20)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (58:20)
I think that that's a really potent feature of what came online or what came into your awareness then in that moment was this practice that would eventually become a practice for you, whether you were consciously aware of it in that moment or not. It obviously got a lot more refined
Sam (58:37)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (58:37)
than that. but I can imagine that it woke up so much of that old stuff about like, god.
Remember what that was like for me. That's fucking sucked. How can I help? How can I be of service here? What is my role and my task and my job that's going to make this easier for everyone because I care about them and because I want them to feel safe in an inherently unknowable space and situation and event. And it feels like that that that Chiron pulled some of those things and activated them online.
In addition to it being in a trine to your Pluto,
Sam (59:17)
Mm.
Laurel Kassor (59:17)
which is really interesting. It's in a waning trine.
But but this waning trine to Pluto, it carries a pillar nine undertone. So it's basically I've got a method, I've got a skill for finding and figuring out how to protect things and put them into place where they belong. and all you have to do is just alchemize your pain. Follow me, I'll show you how. I'll teach you how, in fact.
and that's that quality of that waning trine It has a teaching wisdom dissemination educational preach it quality
I'm not saying in this particular moment
This is how it was, but that moment or that window of time, this event, maybe some other ones that were happening with similar levels of intensity, may have very well been like, I actually kinda know what to do here.
What? I guess th we can transmute this. We can we can turn we can metabolize this into something. We can do something with all of these feelings. We we don't have to suffer with them. And
then the last thing kinda here about this piece is that it activated the Jupiter a pillar
12, Neptune, Pisces, 12th house, undertone. So again, this idea of dissolving beliefs or
Sam (1:00:31)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (1:00:31)
dissolving ideas. Cause obviously this happened not too
Sam (1:00:33)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (1:00:34)
terribly long after you had already started to question
Sam (1:00:37)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (1:00:38)
some stuff about things. So again, this makes me think back to the like, well it's not fair. And that this would be like part of that yep this dissolves that belief even
And then also the sun came online. So this just almost a a secondary echo off of some of the Pluto stuff to an extent because it's it's really saying, we again are gonna create a modality, create a system, create a skill, develop a skill, practice a skill, our identity becomes part of this. Like, I've gotta be helpful in these situations that keep happening. Where loved ones keep vanishing, or support systems keep vanishing,
we can see how it's rolled forward into your work there, some of the things that might have formulated here.
Sam (1:01:19)
Yeah, I mean it makes sense.
It makes sense for sure. Very much
the take charge and you know my partner said that to me a couple years ago it was like the most interesting thing about you is you just are solid in the chaos and i'm like yeah it's not been a choice yeah yeah
Laurel Kassor (1:01:41)
that's on that Saturn Uranus conjunction with the square to the Ceres, being
yeah, we are gonna fucking figure out how to
Sam (1:01:48)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (1:01:48)
be a master in these disappearing spaces. these liminal, chaotic liminality is almost this place where you have you're like, dude, I've got a summer home there.
Sam (1:02:00)
Literally. It's
okay. That's so funny, yes. That's so funny.
Laurel Kassor (1:02:06)
Okay, so the next plot point brings us to relationships. I have a feeling this is a really important one given the scope of some of the work that you've just described and experiences you described for us. This is where Venus lives. And she rolls out about the late twenties, let's say.
This is also in cancer. So we are s we are staying very firm around Pillar Four here. And so this has to do with
Most likely an actual relationship, for real, with Venus involved. But it can also be agreements, it can be bonds, it this could be work stuff still, because there is the sixth house attached to it, so it can have to do with how you are of service, relationships, agreements. This could be people pleasing stuff coming to a head. This energy does activate Saturn and Uranus.
So I know we were just kind of mentioning them. and it does so by a waning quincunx. So it has a pillar eight undertone to it. So it's kind of at this point in time, there may have been some dismantling.
To do. And you were using the word dismantling a lot earlier in when I was asking about your philosophy which by the way, so pillar eight coded. So Pluto, Scorpio, Eighth House, waning quincunx coded. And so here we have a waning quincunx. This is going to be something that likely has a lot to do with dismantling some of the beliefs that we have. I think this might track about
from the Jupiter point where you're yeah, I didn't really explore for a long time, but then I did some stuff happened. It could be around what is true to me. does anything ring a bell for you? Okay, great.
Sam (1:03:38)
Yeah. quite a quite a bit.
I'll try and condense it as much as I can, but
Laurel Kassor (1:03:45)
This
will be the last plot point we get to, so feel free to to roll out. Mm-hmm.
Sam (1:03:47)
Okay. Okay.
so I opened my salon around twenty four ish. And and it was this interesting moment for me because it was
The thing that I had always wanted, it was the thing I had always worked towards. It was the thing that kept me going. It was my North Star. And so once I met my North Star, I was like, well, now what? I have nothing to live for. Which also really turned into this interesting, back to this piece around God, where I was just there's no point anymore, you know? And it was actually
I remember the night before I actually opened the doors, just sitting in the salon and being what's the point of all this? it wasn't something that I could celebrate. it felt like I had nothing to live for anymore and no goal in front of me. There was no carrot dangling to keep me going. And so I ended up in this entire year. It was about a year almost to the day of just shit show. Like partying,
Laurel Kassor (1:04:46)
Mm-hmm.
Sam (1:04:48)
drugs.
Too many men d disastrous kind of relating that was just really chaotic and also probably the most fun I've ever had in my life, if I'm being honest. yeah, it was so much fun.
Laurel Kassor (1:04:59)
There's that Sag
Sam (1:05:01)
It was so much fun. And I I look back and I'm like, I'm so glad I did that, that you're really changed everything for me and you know, some of this very
structured, keep it in under control energy has really crept back in over the years around this whole existential piece. But it was the first time I really just was fuck it, you know? And it was really cool to experience. And also it was chaos. about a year in, I was getting to a point where I was like, I cannot keep moving in this direction. I very much felt like just the relational dynamic that I was kind of in was such a
situationship. It was a shit show. and just partying all the time. And I was like, I I cannot keep doing this. I ended up meeting someone He was a Sagittarius Sun and he had been sober for seven years and he seemed like he had it all together, right? Little white BMW sold cars or he worked at the BMW dealership, had his shit together.
And I remember meeting him. And, you know, I won't go into the story around that because it actually was really highly against my intuition to it be enter into a relationship with him in the first place. But beyond all of that, there was this point where I was like, this is the man that's going to save me from becoming my mother. And
Laurel Kassor (1:06:16)
Mm.
Sam (1:06:17)
really interesting because it ended up being like the relationship with my mother.
my god.
Laurel Kassor (1:06:23)
Well what a way to save you from it, huh?
Sam (1:06:26)
literally, yes, literally, yes, in
Laurel Kassor (1:06:27)
Literally. Yeah. Yeah.
Sam (1:06:29)
so many different ways. and so, you know, it's funny, I've not really ever thought about it that way. but
Laurel Kassor (1:06:34)
Ha ha ha.
Sam (1:06:35)
Yeah. And so that was kind of the entry point into what was really the worst season of my life. and then my work. but that was that year was this turning point energy before I met him and then but and then I tightened back up again and was like, all right, you know, I need to focus on my business. you know, I started really actively growing my business at that point. And so it is interesting kind of how that.
moves through the chart in that way.
Laurel Kassor (1:07:04)
Yeah, it is. Yes, it is. The
Sam (1:07:06)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (1:07:07)
okay, yeah, the salon. Uh-oh, Venus coated. Hello. how Venus coated can that get? attraction, polarity, relationships, attraction being a huge part of the story, d exploring your own a abilities to attract in new ways is part of what I was hearing in that this quincunx specifically.
again has this dismantling quality and so it's for this period of time where this energy may have been live and active in your life and I'm sure this aligns with very interesting transits as well, including your Saturn return or an edge up into the Saturn return. It's just been really cool to watch the way that transits we're not even looking at makes fold into the sauce here. But this
Wild free liberated expression and exploration is so fucking Uranus
Sam (1:07:54)
Mm.
Laurel Kassor (1:07:54)
in this Sag ass shit, too. it's Uranus and Saturn together. The way that I see it again and again and again and again and again is that the slower planet
will always hold the influence over the faster planet. And so here, no matter how big bad Saturn wants to be, Uranus is gonna be there being like, okay, yeah, great. And I can blow your rules out of the water anytime I like, bitch. And so what
Sam (1:08:20)
Interesting.
Laurel Kassor (1:08:21)
we can imagine was going on here at this time through my through this lens, this Venus activation moment is happening. You're exploring attraction.
And you're exploring polarity. You're exploring doing things you've never done them before and having new exciting experiences, which is the Uranus element. Plus Saj, who is wild and crazy, right? who wants to
Get out there and explore baby opportunities abound for liberation. We just have to break our own rules. That's it. That's all. No big deal.
Sam (1:08:54)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (1:08:54)
And so, that's part of some of this energy and the connection between them being the waning quincunx, the dismantling quincunx. It was literally
Rules were being dismanted for the sake of exploration, for the sake of liberation, for the sake of due perspectives. This Saturn Uranus conjunction is in your 11th house, the 11th house, 11th pillar. It has to do with this awakening energy. So does Uranus itself. And so between them, we have a stack of this disruptive.
energy again which is interesting because we this it it creates an interesting echo from the very very very very beginning of your story around disruptions of care this time it's a different
Same, same different lens and details
Sam (1:09:35)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (1:09:36)
in there, but Venus herself is in cancer, so she herself is rooted about something around care to begin with. She's in the sixth house via our this chart we're using, and so to me that's like the agreements or the compromises or the obligations, the commitments you've made around being of of careful, like full of care.
service to yourself and your processes got dismantled, annihilated, destroyed, which are the undertones of that alchemical process, which ultimately in turn killed something, killed something off, and then was right, and now we can emerge anew.
Now we can rise from the ashes. Now we've are ready to transmutate and alchemize. And you mentioned that this set you on path to doing the deep work that you're doing now. I also want to emphasize that this energy too, with the Sagittarius and the Uranus and the Saturn over there could speak so much to schooling too, and education too. And I I know from
From being in your challenge that you have told told us about the three-year-long intensive trauma healing program that you were in, this energy is not the only thing, but it definitely relates to that. well, let's shake it all up and go become a master so I can understand the full total concept of the relationship.
Sam (1:11:03)
Mm-hmm.
Laurel Kassor (1:11:03)
that goes on with this alchemical fucking process here, which is every little bit of the components there and in which case was in a container. you were in moving through this in a in a container, So that was just what came up and out there. How does that land for you?
Sam (1:11:19)
Yeah,
I think that makes sense. For sure.
Mm-hmm. It's interesting.
Laurel Kassor (1:11:23)
It is. It is really interesting. I think it's super fucking clear to see how your lived experiences and the ways that you've been able to navigate them and turn them into really refined methods to support people. Well, number one, to support yourself, but number two also to support others, I mean, you've lived a lifetime.
of learning the processes that go into that. And I think it's really, really fucking badass of you to share that with the world.
Sam (1:11:53)
Yeah,
thank you. It's so funny. Refinement is such my word, you know. It's like it feels like, yeah, it feels
Laurel Kassor (1:11:58)
Pillar six word.
Sam (1:12:00)
like just who I am. And and yeah, that very Virgo just I'm give me your business, I will refine it into a diamond.
Laurel Kassor (1:12:09)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And I think that's a lot of the opening quincunxes in your chart have a lot of interaction between different parts of you, aka also therefore, different parts of your life around you.
Going through a refinement lens, going through a tweak, tweak, tweak, adjust, adjust, trial and error, trial and error. hey, let's try this. Okay, how is that? Is it good? No. Okay, tweak it, adjust. How is it now? And that's kind of what Chiron Virgo, Sixth House, Opening quincunx they're always they're always trying to do that. They're just always refining. They just always can be adjust. We can adapt. You know, we can make this work better. But it's so much about method and
process and I know these are words I'm just repeating now but that is so at the heart of this because it's not just you just feel it and then you figure it out. This is no no no we take active steps
to ensure that we are doing the work in a way that produces one repeatable results, which is a big part of Chiron's whole refinement thing and Virgo's whole refinement thing no no no, we need to be able to repeat these processes. I think of a lot of the Pillar Six energy as
creating the SOPs so this work can be done effectively and efficiently
And I think that it's really neat that you've been able to and will continue to, because guess what? There are some planets in your chart you haven't hit the lived experiential moment on yet, which means there's
Sam (1:13:30)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (1:13:32)
more creation, there's more education, there's more refinement, always an exploration on the table for you, which is really neat.
Sam (1:13:40)
Hmm.
I'm like, where am I now?
About to turn thirty eight, yeah.
Laurel Kassor (1:13:43)
you are into the eighth house a little bit. I I think
You're looking it's around the actual South Node itself. Now again, I'm I haven't watched those closely enough or even done any research into that to be like, what does that? what is there markable plot point happening there? so you will have to tell me. You're
Sam (1:14:00)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (1:14:00)
gonna have to let me know. but it does look that's about where you would fall based on this chart. It looks you would have recently in the last three years.
Have met the sun, done some kind of cr big creation energy, big shift and adjustment in your own relational journey. but the next big one will be Mercury. And that will be at
Probably about forty.
Sam (1:14:25)
Hm.
Interesting.
I'm like, what's to come?
Hmm. So interesting.
Laurel Kassor (1:14:29)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
It's really fascinating stuff, Sam. I can't thank you enough for sharing your story with us of what inspired you, really, whether you meant for it to or not, right? that's the irony of like living our lives is our lives will inspire us to take actions and to transmute this energy. Cause I really want to emphasize for everyone.
Sam chose to become masterful. yes, the possibilities were in her chart, but it's a spectrum. She didn't have to. She didn't have to apply the discipline. You know, she didn't have to go get the education. She didn't have to weather the storms in a way that kept her moving forward. She could have made other decisions, but instead she chose to apply her lessons in real time and make something very, very real out of that. So Sam
Thank you for sharing. How can we work with you?
Sam (1:15:22)
Mm,
yeah. Thanks for having me. All of life is curriculum, right? I really
Laurel Kassor (1:15:28)
Mm-hmm.
Sam (1:15:28)
try to keep that as my North Star at this point, now that the salon isn't the North Star anymore.
I do a lot of one on one work for the most part. So I do some pretty high touch, high ticket one on one work with leaders who are pretty well established in business at this point. I don't do the let's get to your first 10k month thing. that's that's not the work I do. I do a lot of refining, a lot of refinement work. How are we refining your business? How are we refining your relationship? Things like that.
I like to think of it as you're kind of on the other side of your Saturn return of your business essentially. And there has been this
Laurel Kassor (1:16:04)
I know what
Sam (1:16:05)
big upheaval, and you're kind of in this place where it's like, okay, things are are sturdy here, and I want to enjoy this, I want to live this in a way that feels really good and embodied. So yeah, so I do a lot of one-on-one work. I'm I'm launching a mastermind here soon, which will happen before the
This this episode drops. So I don't know what that will be to look what business will look for me, but you can find me on Instagram. is typically where I send people at Somatically Sam. And yeah, I don't know what's to come. I do private retreats and one-on-one work for the most part. that's my that's my focus.
Laurel Kassor (1:16:42)
Incredible. my gosh. Yes. I listen, next time Sam's offering a challenge, go follow her.
Sam (1:16:48)
Okay.
Laurel Kassor (1:16:49)
And next time she offers something, sign up for it. Just do it. Just do it. It's incredible. it really has been so helpful over the last even little bit for me to be shit. Wow. I really have.
Been underestimating myself. Damn,
Sam (1:17:02)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (1:17:02)
I'm someone to fuck with. Look at all this evidence I have. let
Sam (1:17:05)
Exactly.
Laurel Kassor (1:17:05)
me it's been incredible. So thank you so much for being gracious with your time, with your knowledge. I just feel so at peace around you. we got on the call and I was I'm s I'm soothed. I'm soothed. good night.
Sam (1:17:16)
Yeah. Nice. I love that. I
love that. Yeah, I mean that Aries moon energy comes out quite a bit, but some it's a lot of times it's not it's not that. I save I save
Laurel Kassor (1:17:26)
Ha ha ha.
Sam (1:17:27)
it for when it needs to be there.
Laurel Kassor (1:17:29)
For the spice.
Sam (1:17:30)
Yeah, little a little spice.
Laurel Kassor (1:17:32)
We love a little spice in this house.
Sam (1:17:35)
I've
thought about changing my Instagram name to Spicy Somatics a few times, but I haven't. I have thought about it. I know.
Laurel Kassor (1:17:41)
I mean I'm into it. I'm
very here for it. I think that that's a really I think that that's a really, really good name. Very catchy.
Sam (1:17:47)
Yeah,
I love it. I love it.
Laurel Kassor (1:17:49)
Well, thank you again so much, Sam. We really appreciate you. And if this episode sparks some curiosity in you about your chart and your journey, I'd love to support you. I offer readings and resources to dig into your soul syllabus to help you get clear on the work that your whole life has been prepping you for. You'll find those and you can connect with me on my website, soularcastrology.com. Yap with me on threads at astro underscore Aries or stalk me on Instagram at Solarc underscore astrology. But best of all, you can watch these episodes on freaking
YouTube. So go follow us there too. And don't forget to stay in orbit by subscribing, leave a comment to let us know what's hidden, and sprinkle some stardust on this podcast by sharing us with the Astro Hoes in your life. Until next time, seekers ad Astra.
