EP17 ‘Rewilding’ After a Life of Masking: Taking the Vow of Radical Self Acceptance with Bobbi Sol
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EP17 ‘Rewilding’ After a Life of Masking: Taking the Vow of Radical Self Acceptance with Bobbi Sol
What happens when you learn early that being fully yourself might cost you your safety, belonging, or love?
In this episode of Made for This, Laurel Kassor walks the birth chart of clinical mental health counselor Bobbi Sol for a raw conversation about queer identity, evangelical Christianity, neurodivergence, military service, masking, chosen family, and reclaiming the parts of yourself you once learned to hide.
As Laurel explores Bobbi’s Cancer Sun, Pisces Moon, and Leo Rising chart, they trace the astrology beneath those repeating patterns. Bobbi shares how growing up queer, deeply spiritual, and neurodivergent in a Southern Baptist and evangelical environment taught them to read the room, adapt, peacekeep, and become what the environment required.
Today, Bobbi works with queer and neurodivergent clients through a philosophy they call rewilding: reclaiming the parts of ourselves that have been demonized, ostracized, othered, or buried for survival.
In this episode:
* How Bobbi’s childhood taught them to read the room, adapt their voice, peacekeep, and create safety through relationship
* What Ceres in Libra and Mercury and Chiron in Cancer reveal about belonging, family, communication, and early survival strategies
* How Pluto in Scorpio in the fourth house square Jupiter in Leo reflects the collision between family, religion, queerness, and the desire to be fully seen
* Coming out as a teenager, refusing to fit the mold, and unexpectedly finding queer chosen family inside a Christian summer camp
* How Saturn in Aquarius in the sixth house shows up through military service, authority, rigid systems, body expectations, health, work, and survival
* Why joining the military recreated the same masking strategies Bobbi had developed in childhood
* How Bobbi’s Pisces Moon connects to partnership, emotional safety, and the relationships that became anchors during periods of depression and transition
* Coming out socially and professionally as nonbinary and trans, becoming a mental health counselor, and beginning a PhD focused on changing the systems they now work within
Timestamps:
00:00 Meet Bobbi Sol: Cancer Sun, Pisces Moon, Leo Rising
01:25 Rewilding Queer & Neurodivergent Identity
03:44 Bobbi’s Birth Chart & Formative Plot Points
21:30 Childhood Survival, Family & Learning to Adapt
32:47 Pluto in Scorpio: Religion, Family & Queer Identity
36:35 The Moment Bobbi Learned Being Queer Wasn’t Safe
48:45 Coming Out & Reclaiming Self-Expression
54:05 Finding Queer Belonging at Christian Summer Camp
01:05:58 Saturn in Aquarius & Entering the “Real World”
01:06:31 Joining the Military During Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell
01:13:22 Military Culture, Queerness & Losing Their Voice
01:16:44 The Same Survival Story, Different System
01:17:03 “The Mask Glued to My Face”
01:24:15 Pisces Moon: Love & Partnership as an Anchor
01:26:23 Coming Out Again as Nonbinary & Trans
About Bobbi Sol
Bobbi Sol is a clinical mental health counselor serving queer and neurodivergent communities. Their work centers on rewilding—helping people reclaim the parts of themselves that have been othered, suppressed, or shaped by survival. Drawing from narrative therapy and personal mythology, Bobbi helps clients reconnect with identity, belonging, and a more authentic way of being.
Connect with Bobbi Sol: @uncorkedwitch
Listen to Y’all What the F*ck: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/yall-what-the-fu-k/id1889184251
Connect with Laurel Kassor
Website: soularcastrology.com/madeforthis
Threads: @astro_aries
Transcript:
Laurel Kassor (00:00)
Welcome to Orbit Seekers. This is episode 17 of Made for This with Laurel Kassor the podcast where soul-led practitioners, educators, and creatives come together to connect the constellations of how astrology turns from abstract insight to real-world impact when you follow your soul's arc. I'm Laurel Kassor your astro oracle host and the founder of Soul A.R.C. Astrology, and today I am joined by the whimsical, wonderful, cosmic delight Bobbi Sol.
Bobbi has a cancer sun, Pisces Moon, and is a Leo rising.
They're a clinical mental health counselor, co-host of Y'all What the Fuck podcast, and essentially a fairy godmother here to inspire the wildflowers of the world to lean deeper into their own wildness. Bobbi serves the queer and neurodivergent communities, and their path to this work winds through a Christian summer camp, a high school musical that cracked them wide open, and a series of metaphorical death and rebirth processes that ultimately led to their counseling practice that has changed everything about how they show up in the world. And you know what? I know their chart is
gonna bear it all wide open for us. Bobbi, thank you so much for being here with me.
bobbi (01:04)
Yes,
thank you for having me. I'm so excited.
Laurel Kassor (01:08)
I'm so
excited too! so before we jump straight into your chart and your story, because I am very eager to hear all about it, I would love to hear a little bit more about the work that you do, the communities that you serve, and any philosophies that underline why you're doing what you're doing.
bobbi (01:25)
Yeah, yeah, you know, I I'm a clinical mental health counselor.
In the state of Colorado. and you know, the the communities I serve most are queer community, neurodivergent community, and usually that ends up being ADHD, autism, Audi HD in some form. So when I refer to that community, I know neurodivergent has a big umbrella. That's typically
Laurel Kassor (01:45)
Mm-hmm.
bobbi (01:46)
who I find myself working with. And you know,
It's so interesting that you ask what my philosophy is. Because I'm sitting here going over the theories that I bring into practice and things that, and I think it is bigger. And you know, before we even started recording recording, we had a little chat about
Tag words people use and wild has been coming up a lot for me lately. I listened to my own podcast the other day and I've said it 40 times. And hearing that bio read back, I'm like, it is wild, it's rewilding. That I think that would be my
philosophy is you know, I I use a lot of narrative therapy and personal mythology in my approach to working with folks and really jumping into their stories and finding those wild aspects that have been demonized or ostracized and othered in some.
way and helping people re-embrace those parts and renegotiate their relationship with those parts. I think that's my philosophy is just rewilding
Laurel Kassor (02:40)
I love that.
bobbi (02:41)
in in the ways that feel natural to you.
Laurel Kassor (02:44)
I love that rewilding. I love the cyclical-ness that it brings up so organically. it is a return to the wild essence within yourself and within your journey. And I think that's really beautiful because I know like it took me a long time personally to feel I could be authentically safe to be myself, you know, and as an Audi HD.
Bisexual who would be your audience. it is such a very real, it is a very real thing that so many of us go through. And so I love this process or this idea of rewilding, calling it that. It really gives it a very liberating undertone to what can be a scary process sometimes.
bobbi (03:30)
Mm, absolutely. Yeah, in and meeting that fear with compassion, meeting that fear with curiosity. You know, it's all part of the process and I just yeah, I love it so much.
Laurel Kassor (03:40)
I love it so much too. I love the process. Go process.
bobbi (03:43)
Yes.
Laurel Kassor (03:44)
Well, speaking of processes, let's get our eyeballs on your chart and learn about the processes that brought you into this work and onto this path.
So as you may know, that we we to start here with going through what I to call these these formative plot points of your life. I use the developmental age technique here, and the idea is that each planet falls at a specific place in your chart, and that place is associated with a lived experienced age. And we meet those planets for the first time at that level of awareness and at that level of consciousness.
Sets into motion this template for us that we spend the rest of our life resolving or working out or elevating in some way, shape, or form. So the first planets, there are two of them. The first planets that fall in your chart are actually your Mars and your Venus. They are very close together. We have your Mars at 22 degrees Leo, your Venus at 23.
And your a Leo rising, we had mentioned earlier, too. These guys are right on your ascendant. They're really close to your ascendant. So what this tells us is that it was very early, super early in your life that you experienced your first formative events around both impact and connection, you know, and desire on some level. Now, to be but a few.
Months old, and to experience a planet Mars and Venus in Leo especially, we can imagine that it could have been a big deal, could have felt dramatic to the to baby Bobbi, which you would have baby infant, truly, there. And so anything that would have been experienced would be coming through the lens of a being who only knows how to cry and
Basically just exist.
Impulse, impulse and instinct only. And this is also when we meet Mars. Impulse and instinct. So in my system, pillar one is composed of Aries, Mars, the first house, and the conjunction aspect. In this formative moment, we are seeing Mars in the first house in a conjunction. So this is immediately what I would say is a stack of this energy. So we have a lot of this.
Kind of kaboom energy and then we also have Venus tied up in this as well. Here, so this could have been about things that you want being taken away in some way. It does bring on a couple of other planets, one of which is Pluto. Has anyone ever told you anything about this time period? Okay, we're getting some nods. Take it away.
bobbi (06:26)
yeah.
Absolutely. You know, as you were talking and it's just so comical because I'll have to send you the my first ever baby picture. Because I think it it will just make so much sense. I'm so grumpy and you know, just angry about being in this world and that just sets me up for life, right? but as soon as you said that, yeah, my first experience in the world was
expressive, emotional, and a little tragic because you know during during the birthing process, I pooed in the womb and had to be incubated for a week. So separated and you know even that first month you know my mom had some mental health things that went on from postpartum and had to you know forcibly institutionalize so separation right there you know and it wasn't really
A coming together thing into that six-month mark of you know being taken care of by people who were busy and caught up in their own you know trauma cycles and things, you know, not necessarily so Mars being the first one makes total sense. I was born on Tuesday and during Venus hour, so Mars
and
Venus have been literally with me this entire time.
Laurel Kassor (07:37)
Is day in Venus's hour. That's crazy. There are a couple of things in the very literally, very literally, in the in that story that come up. Pooping in the womb is a really interesting one. And it sounds we would be but no, no, no, no. One of the things that got activated along with Mars in the very early phases of life is a square to Pluto. It is, as I mentioned, Pluto comes online. One of the things that is associated with Pluto, with Scorpio,
Pluto and Scorpio both belong to Pillar Eight in my system, which includes the eighth house as well as the waning quincunx aspect. But anyway, the that pillar eight, the alchemy pillar, does have to do with excrement. And it does have to do with feces. And it does have to do with literally shit. It has to do with what is
what needs be removed, what's nasty, It is not uncommon for that to be tied up with this energy as well. So that square, but then that square also created it a forced separation. Now Pluto also does r hang in the realms of things that are overpowering or overdominating. obviously it was no one's fucking fault that that happened. But to a baby who is literally running on nothing but instinct
Which instinct says touch and cuddle and safety and mother and protection, right? Like we need to survive. and then to have you're to be immediately
separated. I'm sure it was a scene. you said it was very dramatic, right? I'm sure it was a scene your arrival. my God, he's here. they're covered in shit. what do we got? Clean this baby up. my God. Are they safe? Are they okay? And so what would have felt like you're osmosising up from the environment around you, very dramatic separation is totally
On the money there. Mars and Venus are making a waning square to Pluto. And the closing square is associated with pillar 10, authority. And that includes Saturn and Capricorn and the 10th house and this waning square aspect. So the connotation or or the
The undertone of the of the type of tension Mars and Venus have with Pluto is one that has to do with rules and boundaries and limitations and restrictions. Literally, you were incubated. You were taken away and you were put into a little box and a little boundary.
And then, of course, we have the Venus piece here.
we think about Venus in such a way of relationships, but like I I I I often don't know if we think about enough with the understanding that companionship is part of that.
Process like it's part of that intimate process of relating to another. and so what I'm also picking up from that bit of the story here is that baby Bobbi would have on some level understood.
like this is very lonely and I'm feeling maybe isolated and maybe we're on our own to survive because this is again happening in the scope of Pillar One House, the first, with Mars, the planet, Pillar One.
you mentioned your ma your mother's postpartum struggles at this time as well. Pluto is in the fourth house. It is in Scorpio. the fourth house is the house of pillar four support associated with them with the moon, with cancer.
And the waxing square. Okay, you are a cancer Sun person. We mentioned this. You are a cancer mercury, you have Chiron in Cancer, you have Mercury in Cancer. And so, this we know pillar four support is gonna be a big player in your life overall, but we're seeing right up front from this very formative moment, part of the undertone of what that pillar looks for you.
Pluto is here mixing in to it. Pluto's here saying, Hey, we're gonna really have to transform, we're gonna have to really metabolize, we're gonna really transmute what care means to us right from the beginning. Because right from the beginning, we're learning, like, holy crap, you're really on your own here, No one wants you, you're super on your own. You gotta really show up and show out if you wanna make it in this world, or else they're just gonna throw you to the dogs. You know,
An infant's not thinking that way, but we can, imagine that that some of that is what got osmosis.
And so that also has to do with mental health. Pluto has to do with mental health. Scorpio has to do with mental health. Pillar eight alchemy is mixing with pillar four support. Pillar four has to do with mom, and pillar eight has a lot to do with how we psychologically metabolize.
Things, especially things that scare us, and how we take that and use that and turn that into empowerment on the high end of it. Now, obviously, you've already shared with us you're doing that with people now, right? so clearly, we've been able to construct, which is again part of the waning square to construct, to build Saturn, Capricorn.
stuff right it carries this if you want to make it work you're gonna have to build it yourself you're gonna to build your own structures and go really deep and go really in the extreme how's this landing for you what does this bring up for you
bobbi (12:44)
it lands absolutely because I mean that you know especially the the having to express having to really seek that nurturing through performance, through putting on a show and as a baby, of course that meant crying and you know getting older, it it's you know, having to express myself in some way to remind people, hey, I I exist here. And
And you know, that ties into other things that that we may talk about later in life, but as a baby, those formative processes, Pluto definitely was present, you know, that the in having to tend myself, you know, that self-care. I I've always joke that I've mas I mastered self-care in the first six months of my life because I had to.
Laurel Kassor (13:32)
But you had literally
you're not saying that out of your asshole.
that
bobbi (13:36)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (13:37)
is so what the chart is telling us. It's exactly what the chart is telling us. Because one of the undertones I mentioned, this waning square.
when you realize that this pillar ten aspect has to do with mastery. that is the that's where the tension is. It's literally this energy between these elements of of self that
Are trying to figure out and work out a process that has to do with renown, which with has to do with expertise, with has to do with the only way I'm gonna feel good about whatever this tension is, is if I am successful at making them work for me.
Right? that is this energy. And so, you literally had to. And that actually brings up a really amazing point here because although the Pluto is certainly the louder of the aspects that came online at this time, your Ceres got activated here too. So your Mars is actually your Mars is at 22, your Venus is at 23 Leo. Your Ceres is at 22 Libra. Here.
And that is in a perfect
Sextile to the Mars and the Venus. Now, Ceres actually moves slower than both of Mars and Venus, which means Mars and Venus in Leo are in a waning sextile to Ceres. Let's translate all of this. So the waning sextile is associated with pillar 11 in the system. Pillar 11 is the awakening pillar. It features Aquarius, Uranus, and the 11th house. So
It has a liberation quality to it. It has a disruption quality to it. It has a I see the bigger picture here. Kind of quality to it. Interdisciplinary thinking is very inventive. It's also a little a little different, that is a relationship. There is still something supportive because there's like, no, we can advance. We we can advance. We're gonna find a way to advance together, right? So between Mars and Venus, who together.
in a conjunction function as one force of going after what you want. You gotta go after what you want. You gotta do it with style baby.
They have made a connection, they made a friend, they made an a little ally with Ceres, who is the planet of Pillar Two in our system in Soul A.R.C. astrology. Ceres is the force of all things Taurus, of all things second house, of all things waxing semi-sextile.
Ceres itself is an entity that has a lot to do with soothing, by the way, being soothed, feeling good. it's a very binary energy. It's good or bad.
Things are good or things are bad. I am comfortable or I am not or I am not comfortable. I am hungry or I am not hungry. I am in need or I am not in need. it's a possessive energy. It is about ownership, right? it is about stabilization, resources, about having what you need to survive, And so what I
Can
10 trillion percent see as a very real thing that would have happened at the baby age here is that shit, I'm on my own. But wait a second, your Ceres is in the third house.
If I disrupt with my voice as environment, then I can finally get what I need. And then I'll be at peace. Thank God. It's in Libra. So it really is about depending on other people to provide you your sense of peace, which I'm sure can translate into a million adult situations.
Like this is how I'm making a connection with you. Obviously that has been developed over the course of time. But it's also likely where you just developed I have a voice and it does make a difference. It can actually anchor, I can actually attach to like
like my my vocal cords as a way to connect to people. Like I'm not totally shit out of luck here. Right. I just wanted to bring up that that piece came very loudly online at that time too.
bobbi (17:15)
Absolutely, you know, I and I think it even is even this year, really kind of moving into trusting that, you know, hearing you describe
the vocal the voice, you know, using the voice to disrupt and to connect. And really there's been a long history of being very self-conscious about my voice. You know, being told I sound a girl, which of course when I was a kid was so painful and now that I'm a trans woman I'm thank you So it's exactly and
Laurel Kassor (17:45)
I guess thanks for noticing.
bobbi (17:48)
so it i it was the this process of really
disrupting and you know screaming you know as a form of connection you know my my I I I describe my early childhood as you know a war zone and
Laurel Kassor (18:01)
Mm-hmm.
bobbi (18:01)
and having to survive that war zone any way possible and and my voice always was one of those things you know getting louder being disruptive and
And kind of as you s you you kinda hinted, it it's an interesting dynamic in adult relationships and one that I really sat with in in shadow work a long time ago, even before come becoming a counselor. And y I could even talk about my voice being a powerful form of disruption and activating for other folks and i with that profession in incorporating hypnosis into what I do and and using my voice in a way that's soothing for others and, you know, doing that for myself too. You know. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (18:41)
I fucking love that. And I actually I think we're gonna get right into a little bit of this that will make a great segue to tell us about the hypnosis, because I do wanna hear about that. everything you're saying is gonna f
It's gonna feed exactly into this next formative event because the next formative event is Ceres. It is her.
bobbi (18:57)
Okay,
Laurel Kassor (18:57)
So ever so I'm not putting a pin in what you're saying. I'm saying we're gonna about to expand on it actually. Because I love
bobbi (19:02)
Yes. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (19:04)
what you're saying here. And there are a couple of things immediately that come up that I wanna mention. So I do associate Ceres with the Taurean epicenter of energy, that pillar two energy. And I associate that with the throat, right? Now I don't associate it with words.
That is pillar three. That is the echo pillar. That is about words and communication. But I do deeply, and there have been a couple of other episodes where this comes up, I do think that pillar two has to do with music. And I do think that it has to do with beat.
I think that it has to do with sound because it is a energy that is about s the physical tangible realm and senses. So your literal tactile senses, you know? So that is interesting because for you, Ceres this physical, tangible anchoring essence, is in your third house of echo. Right? And so this is where for you, Pillar Two's planet.
meets the context and the realm of communication.
And of act of speaking and of having a message and of not just having the ability to make the sound, which is a little bit more what I view that Cerean thing to be, but the logic around it and the actual exchange and the echo factor around it. So the time frame where you would have started to look through Ceres
is looks like
age six or seven ish, somewhere in that frame here. This again is the third house. So this can have to do with several things. This can have to do with siblings. sometimes siblings are low hanging fruit here or cousins, sometimes peer relationships, but think school agey. this can literally have to do with classmates. We've seen this come up as classmates, we've seen this come up often as just the early elementary.
Schooling experience. or neighborhoods, another big thing that we might see this physically show up as. we can assume here, especially with this being your Ceres Libra, is that it would have hearkened back to the Mars-Venus thing I'm learning about how to use my voice.
But it also brought online the square to both Mercury and Chiron together in Cancer.
Maybe this was a peacekeeping thing between f siblings or family or or classmates or something.
maybe there was like a threat. It looks like a complicated situation that was maybe very emotional, gives me a sense of like unfairness you're nodding profusely. So something's in your head. Okay, tell us about it.
bobbi (21:30)
Absolutely. And as as you were kind of describing that, I, you know, earlier described my early childhood as a war zone. And
Laurel Kassor (21:37)
Yes.
bobbi (21:37)
there are different people that make up that war zone. And I've for me it's been a battle medic, you know, being a battle medic in my early childhood literally was trained as a battle medic in the military, but
you know, it in the in the early child
Laurel Kassor (21:50)
What my god
bobbi (21:53)
it was it's as you were talking, I'm no way, because this is you know, being that peacekeeper in that early.
Childhood with my cousins, with my family, with my parents, you know. I, you know, I have three younger siblings who were born into existence in those first seven years, and you know, those dynamic shifting family. We moved back and forth from where I was born to where my dad lived, two or three times in those years. So lots of meeting new groups of people and having to immediately try to connect with my voice and relate and try to form safety, form a container.
through relation when I didn't have the safety of my own space, you know. I was a bedroom kid that didn't have a bedroom for for a while. So I, you know, trying to create that container any way I can and sometimes that turned into social groups and relating, switching head starts and building blocks and you know, those are pre-K programs. and then actually, you know, in those years I had to do that a lot.
Laurel Kassor (22:50)
Mm-hmm.
A couple of different things come up as you share some of the details there. I'm not surprised to hear that cousins are involved or siblings. I said, I was that seems like very loud, like a very
bobbi (23:00)
yeah.
Laurel Kassor (23:01)
loud thing. Now, your Mercury and your Chiron are in cancer, so this being and then when that came up, it was very familial in in space. Now I think it's really interesting that you were moving between where you were born and where your father had lived. because again, this Ceres is in an exact sextile to
Mars, so that's loud, that's always gonna be fucking loud. And but Mars is in Leo, and Leo is the sign associated with Pillar Five Creation, one of the big low-hanging fruit, especially in childhood around Pillar Five, is father. So it's and it's Mars, it's move father, move father, but of course, it's also brought on the the Venus.
Quality. Now it's important to note here, your Ceres is in Libra, therefore receiving orders from Venus,
It sounds like this was also maybe part of where we were learning how to develop a mask because there were s you specifically said the word relate, which is one of those words that where my ear my little fucking astro ears go off like a siren and they're like, Wee woo, wee woo, wee woo. That's pillar seven. The a polarity pillar, the attraction pillar, right? Where we learn to relate, where I mentioned companionship. Remember how important companionship's always gonna be a biggie.
Because it was right up there up front, it folded into that very first childhood experience where we were isolated forcibly, but learned, we too can figure out how to anchor into a relationship with people. we've done it before, we'll figure it out again. Right? So that knowledge was always kind of burnt into the CD of you in some way.
it could've felt very spiral y because there is that twelfth house energy around the cancer placements that are involved. that there that you may be part of what's coming through here is that you may have also been
Figuring out what communication worked and what didn't. what worked for people, what didn't. okay. So saying this is fine, but saying that is not. Again, it sounds like a neurodivergent it as a Audi HD
As someone can deeply relate it to what those processes may have been like, it sounds like this would have been a period where you were having to do a lot of trial and error, which brings Chiron so heavily into this equation. In my system, we look at Chiron as the planetary agent of Pillar Six, refinement or attunement, it is associated with Virgo and the sixth house and the opening quincunx aspect, and they all share the same sense.
Of we can do it better, we can adjust it. We gotta figure out where where we can tweak, right? There is an attunement going on, there is a refinement going on, there is a chiseling always going on with this energy. Now
Chiron in cancer specifically is refining things about belonging and acceptance and safety. And how do we find better ways to safely, in this case with Mercury literally conjunct, communicate without being putting ourselves at risk, you know? how do we communicate our what I can imagine in the 12th house is a very
And if you were still undiagnosed with anything at this point, very floaty, a very magical, whimsical inner world, a very rich inner world. But this could have been the time where you were learning how to mask and seeing that, like, wait.
I it feels really bad when people don't like me. I don't like that. You know? So is any of that bringing up anything else around this experience or this theme?
bobbi (26:25)
yeah, absolutely. even
You know, going back to cousins, my cousin going back and forth between social groups between my mom's family and, you know, my dad's family, and having to fit in there and figuring out, you know, how to tweak the thing, how to how to ship the words, you know, using words where I grew up in Virginia and you know, when you're up in New York, those words don't make sense and you may even get picked on. So I don't say those you know, I had a very sit I had a very thick southern accent when when I was in those years and
c trained myself to to lose that because when I lived up north people didn't respond well to that accent. You know, I was picked on even in those early developmental years for saying words like y'all and aunt. and you know so I didn't like that, you know, because when people don't like you that doesn't feel safe because I need people to like me in order to feel safe. Not so much anymore, but in those years especially and that that
mask really started to form and I didn't I was not diagnosed until my later 20s so you know very confusing time very rich inner world because I needed it I needed that inner world to escape every day and escape is how I survived and now you know it's I kind of weave that into many things I do intentionally now not so much unintentional escape but yes everything you're saying I'm like chef's kiss
Laurel Kassor (27:50)
I've never heard more Chiron in the 12th house. The 12th house, all of Pillar 12, Pisces, Neptune, 12th house, obviously, and the waning semisextile.
All of them have to do with a surrender, a vanishing, a di a dissolving, a loss, a
Escape, a release, an ending, a completion. It's also where the why I pulled the word confusing out. it's also where where I pulled rich inner world from. it's it is the imagination energy, right? And so what what you're describing here with Chiron being present there is part, remember part of what Chiron does is it is the active practitioner. It does the Virgo things. And so what does it do? It trains. It does.
Things on repeat. So what is it gonna repetitively do? Well, it's gonna repetitively attempt to lose something because that's what it's it's learning how to do. And if with with Mercury right there, it's like, speech, something about speech, something about data, something about siblings, cousins.
Information. We're also gonna train how to learn that stuff. We're gonna look because we're gonna learn how to get it back symbolically, because there is a cancer thing, so it's like whatever's lost can be found. Because so there's a reciprocal quality coming to this energy. But at that point in time, it was really you were looking at it, you were experiencing heavily through Ceres. And it was like this is my real life, like this is my real world, and this is what I need to do to anchor relationships to keep them.
You know? Yeah.
bobbi (29:17)
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. You know, and it it it informed how I grew up, you know, that that information, not having that structure to hold on to in my life, you know, having to create that. It's how I formed a relationship with spirituality so early, you know, it that was another big part of my life growing up, and that has obviously changed a lot. And you know, one of those big moments I talked about is, you know, bringing a Christian summer camp counselor, but and like in those early
Earlier
years, it was heavy evangelical, heavy Baptist, Southern Baptist is what I was kind of immersed in in those years. So that's how I survived was my relationship with religion and using that, pairing that with my own imagination and my own, you know, psychic experiencing as a kid, you know, re feeling into the room in the environment around me, not necessarily from what people are saying to me because their words were love, and then the actions kind of showed different things.
Things and I had to feel into that so early and get really good at feeling into that for my own safety early. It's how you know I'm really good at reading the room. one of the one of the stigmas with autism is you know, sometimes we're not really good at reading expressions and reading social cues in that way. I think I'm really good at that, to the point of now I'm a social scientist because that you know that that early childhood forms that relationship
Laurel Kassor (30:36)
A hundred percent because there's so much in this especially when pillar four support and belonging and acceptance meets pillar seven polarity and attraction and companionship and intimacy. There's something very important that goes on between those pillars, which by the way are inherently square to each other.
We're talking about we're talking about cancer, we're talking about Libra. when these energies are interacting with each other, there can be a fawning, I think, that occurs with them.
bobbi (31:08)
yeah.
Laurel Kassor (31:08)
Because it's like, I just want you to like me so much so you accept me. That there can be those kinds of things that happen, and especially when you are a child.
You can't ration that out. You cannot understand because your primary concern is belonging, because you don't know what that feels yet. You don't know how to create it yet. You're still, it's all still being modeled for you. And so, what we're seeing here is a very, you know, unfortunately common experience of a neurodivergent child
This particular it really does a lot of things that I've noticed for f quite a few people. We hit this third house bracket of age, which is between five and nine. And that's where a lot of it seems the neurodivergent spectrum folks
start to realize that there's something different going on here, even if there are zero words for it. And that's what we're hearing for you specifically. Is that I had to find alternative ways to learn because the way that my senses, which is again the serious thing, were telling me to relate, I had to,
pull from ether because that's where part of the skill set is. And that's Chiron. Chiron's skill set. your skill is the ability to reach into ether, but that means feeling into things. Mercury is in a waning pillar ten type square. So it's build something out of this shit.
But Ceres itself is in a waxing square to Chiron, because Chiron moves slower than Ceres does. So we're seeing both a, I gotta master this if I wanna get accepted happening here on multiple fronts. And it's really getting the energy very loud about I gotta learn acceptance. then Chiron's like, and there's a right way to do it. And we do it in a really weird, invisible way.
bobbi (32:46)
Yeah, absolutely.
Laurel Kassor (32:47)
So the next plot point have about age
Nine and half to ten years old. This is our Pluto plot point. It's a big it's a big scary so this is Pluto in Scorpio in the fourth house. We know this is something about family. what else we know, is that this is when Jupiter comes online through the view of Pluto.
You've already mentioned an early evangelical religion. I I don't I didn't know much about the evangelical faith until relatively recently. And I'm like, that's the demon one. Got it. Okay.
bobbi (33:21)
yeah.
Laurel Kassor (33:22)
what we are seeing here is that your Pluto actually brings a lot of different things online. this would have been a really important bubble of time period. Pluto was.
in a very tight waning square so it has a pillar 10 authority kind of saturnian capricornian structural undertone to it with Jupiter in Leo
In the 12th house. Okay. This is given it gives big dramatic religious confusion This is also when Mars and Venus would have been now viewed from Pluto's lens. Whereas they saw Pluto when you were born,
And now there's religion and belief and morals involved too. So now knowing that that's probably where a lot of some of these other events are taking place is in this bubble or leading into this bubble, please take it us take it away and and tell us more.
bobbi (34:16)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely and you kind of hit the nail on the head with saying, Is that the demon one? Yeah, absolutely, because and then this is also contributes to the fawning, contributes to the people pleasing and and almost I wouldn't say
performing spirituality because for me it's always been inherent and that confusion aspect comes from witnessing the performance, you know, witnessing other people performing or kind of teaching religion the way they it's strict to them. It's doctrine. It's the way, you know, my mom was raised, Southern Baptist and Evangelical, those two things together are very complicated when you grow up a queer.
Laurel Kassor (34:58)
that's a lot for a brain to hold.
bobbi (35:00)
Absolutely. Yeah, and having to, you know, hear hear that from other people while having my own experiences and having to make sense of the experiences I'm having, you know, as somebody who again developed a relationship with spirituality way before I had even language for my understanding,
Laurel Kassor (35:19)
Mm-hmm.
bobbi (35:19)
you know, the my my witchcraft and things that were way present in my life before I had the jargon for it. So knowing my experiences that I'm having and
thinking, I can only experience this through this lens or I'm gonna be viewed as a demon. You know, I'm already starting to have thoughts at this time of being attracted to you know, boys, not girls. So that's
Laurel Kassor (35:43)
Mm-hmm.
bobbi (35:43)
confusing going on. you know, all these things happening in my body of and not wanting to be seen in that, right? Not wanting to have a crush
Laurel Kassor (35:50)
Mm-hmm.
bobbi (35:51)
that's a boy because if I do that, my family's gonna think I'm evil. Literally.
Laurel Kassor (35:56)
literally,
literally, literally. Like literally, literally.
bobbi (35:57)
Yes.
Laurel Kassor (35:58)
Like called the exorcist up. Yep.
bobbi (36:01)
Absolutely.
Yeah. Yeah. And so I hid that those parts of self till later in life, but which will I'm sure w we make it to, but
right in this phase it's still very hidden. There's so many parts of myself that I didn't allow to be seen in the world, even
though I was still expressive.
Laurel Kassor (36:17)
Was there any particular
moments that stand out that you can describe for us that really speak to the that revelational kind of like, I have to actively choose to put my own understanding of things away if I want to be safe.
Yeah.
bobbi (36:35)
absolutely. You know, even as you ask that question, I have a very formative memory of that time of being in the back seat of the car with my mom and my mamma. my mamma driving and them having a conversation about gay people that they're seeing on the news and queer people that they're seeing on the news. And you know, my mamma at that time. I was, you know, I I'm what's known as in the community as nonbinary trans femme
Laurel Kassor (37:01)
Mm-hmm.
bobbi (37:02)
for folks.
but you know, at that time, you know, I had already been accidentally pushed down the stairs for wearing heels. That was an accident. You know, my cousin has told me many times that she's sorry, but in in this memory that I had come up, you know, my my mom and my mamma having this conversation about what they're seeing on the news, my mama saying, I hope none of your kids ever turn into that. Yes, absolutely. And and being
Laurel Kassor (37:25)
turn into the fucking language of it. Okay. Sorry, keep going.
bobbi (37:29)
no, absolutely, you know,
'Cause that kind of reaction really happened for me in that moment too, of n noticing, they're seeing parts of me. I need to lock that up and I need to pretend. I need to show s them something else while I'm maintaining my own confidence that I'm developing in my inner world.
Laurel Kassor (37:47)
Mmm, I'm so sorry to baby Bobbi. And I'm so proud of everything they've done with it since then. But that that that
bobbi (37:51)
yeah, thank you. Yes.
Laurel Kassor (37:55)
memory, thank you for sharing it.
it is an absolute representation of this quality around visibility. I have to hide my visibility. There this this is would be where the belief would have begun. And this is something you know, you could just interpret when people have Jupiter in a square to Pluto, I wouldn't leave, I wouldn't
Fears around expansion. yeah, this this fear around, if I expand who I am, if I expand my self-expression, Jupiter and Leo, then I'm in physical danger. I am in literal life and
bobbi (38:22)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (38:23)
death danger, which again harkens back to the childhood. I mean, when I say the infant the birth story here, which was you were expanding into your consciousness on Earth, and that was almost a tragedy,
you couldn't have been conscious of that in these moments, but it was bringing online this even deeper fear body reaction, very likely, that had to do with how do I under what do I do with this understanding? And that has you kept saying the word understanding, and that's Jupiter. and I freaked out when you said transform it. I hope none of them transform or turn into, which to transform something is to Pluto something is to Scorpio
Something is to alchemize, right? And that's part of that undertone of this Pluto moment. And it was like, I will be rejected from my family. Another thing about the memory specifically you brought up, Jupiter represents grandparents, like straight up, And in the fourth house, this is so family-based, which we kind of already knew, right? But just really illustrating that this was a time period where.
you did have to go into hiding. You did have to sacrifice your self-expression and the belief that you could be safe or that you could successfully because again this is a waning square that you could s successfully self-express at scale if you wanted to grow into who you were growing into, that that needed to be given up.
because otherwise it's a danger for us. We'll be rejected, we'll be ousted, we'll be othered, you know? And
It's more evidence to me of how we are able to over time move through the processes of our chart and actually develop them into something workable. It doesn't have to end there. Obviously, you are working with other people now in a capacity that creates a successful means of helping them overcome this fear of visibility. You know what I mean? So it's like this thing.
Does spark, it sets a template in place for us that we have the options to move through. And I just wanted to also just emphasize, too, that you do have Pluto in a
Waxing sextile to your Uranus-Neptune conjunction. And so this sextile carries the undertone of pillar three echo and that has to do with learning. And it has to do with communication, has to do with exchange. So and the news and media too, by the way. which you mentioned, that's what you overheard that and the car too, by the way. transit, has to do with this pillar that is Mercury and Gemini in the third house.
And this particular opening aspect. But anyway, there was something going on here where you're learning. hmm. I can escape this persecution somehow. I can use this information to liberate me from these fears.
Uranus and Neptune, are in a quincunx to your Jupiter, so that's kinda weird the reinforcing fucking thing can't ha was going on to. But it did create a small outlet where it was like, I could learn. I can just learn. So how does that feel landing for you?
bobbi (41:27)
oh, it lands. you know
learning so much, you know, learning through the media I was consuming at the time, you know, find
Laurel Kassor (41:33)
Mm.
bobbi (41:34)
finding I was really bit you know, I often say that media raised me. My family didn't necessarily raise me. And media being television, being movies I grew up with, being books, you know, I was a library I I joke that, you know, that was my Matilda phase That was, you know,
in the library bringing home a book bag full of books because the librarians knew I was gonna blow through them
in a week and just being able to to have access to that but also my the television shows you know growing up in the early nineties you know I think that was such a fun fun time for media because we got we got so much grief and yes
Laurel Kassor (42:11)
We had the best.
bobbi (42:13)
grief joy you know the literally the best like cartoons
You know, learning those themes
and but like with something that's feel good and not necessarily going
Laurel Kassor (42:22)
Mm-hmm.
bobbi (42:23)
to, you know, land before time, you know,
Laurel Kassor (42:27)
What is interesting is that Neptune specifically, who is the closer planet in this sextile by at by
Degree, does have to do with media. Or I let me rephrase it this. It has to do with a film and it has to do with imagination. It pillar 12 has to do with film and television and Hollywood and the glitz and the glam and the illusions of Hollywood, right? it does have a lot to do with that. And I think that with Uranus there, a lot of the cartoons and shit that we were raised on were weird. They were weird, they were very
bobbi (42:56)
Yes. I'm very
Laurel Kassor (42:59)
strange.
But there's something about the way that this informed our ability to transmute pain early. And it's a testament to our generation, because we have all in our own stories had to transmute pain in some way, shape, or form at different phases. But as a collective millennial group, we've had to transmute a lot. We are the ones with generate cycle generational cycle breaking didn't start until we showed up on the scene to start doing it. You know what I'm saying?
there there's a a lot of
Transmutation and turning into that that fucking word set of words there that the Scorpio and Pluto and the alchemical pillar does. And so it to to talk about the way that the shows come up and the television and the entertainment comes up, for you, your Neptune and your Uranus are in your fifth house of hobbies and of fun and of entertainment, quite literally, of entertainment. It's associated with pillar five, creation. Right? And so it's you were able to
channel some of these fears out and pro and pr probably project yourself into some of these shows. as is part of this natural ability, I think, to be able to get a higher perspective and a bigger perspective on what does self-expression mean? But again, at this time, it sounds nice when we're talking about it as adults, but at this time, this also would have been reinforcing the fear too. But it would have been saying, yeah, it's possible. It's possible for us to completely reinvent ourselves. It's
almost just delusional enough to believe it to keep you here, to keep you alive. You know what I mean?
bobbi (44:33)
Yes, absolutely. You know, media being being a survival strategy. And when as soon as you said projecting myself into the shows, I'm
Yes, you know that game you you you play with with friends or cousins where you're I'm that character, I'm that character, and everybody's really picky about which character they get. I could relate to every character. I think there was a moment for every character, and that's what made the story. And without a single character, the story wouldn't be the same. And if you can't see yourself in each character, what are we even doing here? And then also channeling that, you know, in moments of anxiety, you know, asking myself, what would the Pink Ranger do?
Do in this moment. Instead of what would Jesus do in this moment, learning. What would the Pink Ranger do in this moment? What would what would Ducky do in this moment, who is one of my favorite characters in there before time,
Laurel Kassor (45:20)
We love Ducky.
bobbi (45:21)
and you know, just what would this character do? And learning that, relating to the character, therefore learning from the character and experiencing the character in in in the way I did, you know, bringing it through without people knowing that's what I was doing. Of course I didn't name any of this.
Laurel Kassor (45:37)
Mm-hmm.
It was all game. It was just all a game.
bobbi (45:39)
Yes, yes.
Laurel Kassor (45:41)
Those planets are in your fifth house. Obviously, we know
This was a really important moment around setting up these templates that ultimately created the structures and the discipline for you to one, persist and keep living in a world that was very much like you're on your own, kid. but also.
in this process of alchemizing. Cause that's also what we're hearing here is that you were around this since nine-ish years old. You've been actively consciously turning pain into something else.
And finding ways to navigate it and manage it and cope with it, which is not always been healthy because hello, you were fucking a child again, hello. But it gives it starts to set up the pathways for you to go on the journey and for you to which is again hello, hi Jupiter over there, to go on this journey and learn the knowledge through discipline, through measured steps that allow you to really
Connect at the deepest level. what the fuck does identity mean to me?
what does that mean? And so it would have started to set up some of those ponderings as well. And also has a lot of the religious and the belief undertones too. That would have likely set up a dramatic leaving of of of Christianity and church. So the next plot points we're getting to, and maybe this starts to align with summer camp or the musical,
We're maybe around more 17-18-ish. Here, this is actually when the Uranus-Neptune conjunction comes online, so it's gonna relate to Pluto, it's gonna relate to Jupiter. It's
Actually, in opposition to your Sun. So your sun energy gets pretty loud, maybe for the first time ever, which makes sense because if you've been hiding your identity for so long and we learned that that's the only way to stay safe, which by the way, sun and cancer, we have to protect anything in cancer needs protection. That is part of the initial experiential lessons of it. It's if a planet lands there, we're gonna learn how to protect it and with the
Sun there its identity, saying we're gonna learn how to protect our identity. So, that again tracks with the rest of the story that you've shared with us to this point. but it's at this time that we get a full view through the lens of imagination, but maybe it was disruptive Again, this is the Uranus Neptune moment.
There is a dismantling happening, We have a waning quincunx between Jupiter in the 12th in Leo and these outer planets That carries a pillar eight undertone to it. So there is a dismantling, alchemizing process going around with belief. But Pluto is in a sextile So
Pluto's like, hey guys, didn't I teach you about this a few years back? Didn't I teach you guys something about this? Then you guys learned something from me. And also the moon is online your moon is in Pisces, that's a little reminder. The moon is in the seventh house of partnerships, of polarity, of it's giving you like me, you really like me. is part of the vibe that it's giving me.
So anyway, what was going on in your teenage years that would have been both a little dramatic, but also it seems liberating in some way.
Yeah.
bobbi (48:45)
Absolutely.
And you know, I'm just soaking up everything you're saying because it's just poetry and that's literally
17, 18, you know, and and it kind of started around then with my coming out moment. I grew up for context, I grew up in a very small town where I oft I joke there's more cows than people, you know, one traffic light. We only had one gas station for a time. There's two. That was a big moment in my town's history. So very small town, very, very small town. And that that junior year I had my big coming out moment. You know, I I I literally read a poem in front of my English class.
D declaring myself as, you know, different. And, you know, I wrote a lot of poetry about feeling you know, society trying to put us in a mold and how we don't need to conform to that. We can we can choose our own path and and take our own way. It's also, you know, those years where I I was at that point a Christian summer camp counselor, you know, learning first time, you know, really connecting the the summer camp I worked at was K through twelve, but it was also
children and adults with developmental disabilities. So it was the first time I was put in that s that kind of not necessarily peacekeeper but nurturer, you know, having to take care and and and show care that way. And it kind of unlocked my own confidence. It unlocked my ability to connect with my voice and use you know acting. I I tried out for the school musical and you know I had a pretty big role my junior year and I landed the the lead in in the in the high school musical. You know, I got to live
That story, and I was really happy at that point because high school musical was huge and Glee was on. So it was a big formative experience for me and very dramatic. You know, that this big coming out moment and being the lead in the high school musical. It was just, you know, those here I hated high school. I hated school. I loved the connecting factor, I loved to be able to learn, hated all the bullying. Those two
Laurel Kassor (50:41)
Mm-hmm.
bobbi (50:42)
years, though, were my really like breaking out moment.
And really, you can like me if you want to, but I'm gonna like myself. And wow, you like when I do that. that's weird.
Laurel Kassor (50:51)
Yes.
my god. They're so juicy. Okay, I love this. I really there's so much to love here. So
One of the things that you straight up said was poetry. You meant you broke in with poetry. about not fitting the mold. Neptune in Capricorn. Neptune is all of Pillar 12. So Neptune, Pisces, 12th house, waxing semi, is all poetry. It literally has to do with poetry. And
Capricorn is molds and lines and boundaries. And in the fifth house, which is where you are sitting there watching this energy unfold around you focally in your life, is in the house of expression and of self-expression. Use the word confidence specifically. Remember, I said the sun had come online. This is also when Jupiter is in Leo is getting some activation. And then, of course, we're in the fifth house.
ourselves. So there's a lot of pillar five activation just at this time, which brings in these themes of confidence, of self-expression, of identity, of the decisions that you choose to make, of performance, of acting, straight up, straight up acting. back to the poetry real quick though. I mentioned your moon comes online, Your moon in
Pisces seventh house relating our feelings through poetry. Like boom, boom, boop boop boop. And then it's doing that in a echo connection, which has to do with communication to Neptune itself in the fifth house. So it is literally like, yeah, you know what? I will stand up in front of all of my classmates. Humiliation be damned. Take me or leave me. Right? it's really beautiful. And it's like everyone's going, yeah. Nice. Cool.
it's pulling in the full spectrum. And that's what it is so important. Here is remember, this is opposite your sun. And it was think, disrupting all of these beliefs you held about yourself, all of these perspectives you had. It was showing you, hey, advancement's possible. you started from the bottom, now you're here. You know, and you can keep going. And so I wanna pick a little bit more at the Jupiter.
Stuff and the summer camp stuff and the religion stuff. because all of this identity coming into your identity stuff is amazing and is such a good illustration here. But again, that means that there was a disruption in some previous beliefs we held about ourselves. And I think that that comes through with the Jupiter in the 12th house.
in Leo making the waning quincunx to the Uranus Neptune conjunction. And so again that that waning your quincunx has a dismantling quality. It's like if we're gonna evolve then we actually need to
kill off or annihilate some of the in this case it would be beliefs about decisions, beliefs about choice, expression, performance in order to integrate, in order to evolve, in order to empower.
There. And so we know that Jupiter had to do with religion We also know that that bled directly into concept of self. So I'm curious where were you at with the religious stuff at this time? I know you mentioned you were at the summer camp and you told us the good parts about it, which is you got exposed to people who could really validate and you could relate with more and you could see the value of yourself in those spaces. I am curious to pick a little
Yeah.
bobbi (54:05)
Yeah,
I love that you are because I love to go deeper with that. Because the ironic part is that was such a freeing time of my life. You know, that summer camp was right on a lake, Seneca Lake, which is one of the deepest freshwater lakes in the United States, in the finger lakes of New York. So it's beautiful. And you know, the summer camp I worked at, who was running the camp at that time was a woman, a woman pastor who who was married to another pastor who was ex-communicated.
From the Presbyterian Church for advocating for gay people in the church. So, they're running the show here. And you know, I worked with people from all around the world, you know, right across the lake from where I grew up was Cornell and Ithaca College, and so there were a lot of students that came over from there to help out at the camp. And you know, I w I got to work, it was very eye-opening first time. Again, you know, I grew kind of my formative years in Norfolk, Virginia, but most of my childhood happened in a very small rural town. So being exposed.
To all different cultures and r y religions. You know, I worked with people who were Jewish who who who d had no religion and yet we were still accepted to work here at this Christian summer camp. And two of the other counselors who were older than I was, they were juniors in college at the time. I was a junior in high school when I started, but they were gay, you know, so it was my first opportunity meeting whoa, gay people from the out in the world. th this isn't just Kurt Hummel Exactly. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (55:28)
Yeah, gays in the wild. We love it.
bobbi (55:31)
So it was it, you know, that experience of seeing religion can coexist with these parts of myself that I hid for so long. So what can I do with and camp itself turned into an escape at that point because it was, you know, we showed up on Sunday, no, showed up on Monday and left on Friday. So we were with the campers all week, all night even sleeping in the same cabin. So it was you know, I signed up for it because I got to get out of my house, you know, I got
Laurel Kassor (55:57)
Yeah.
bobbi (55:57)
to escape that that
kind of war zone environment and and be in this environment. And it showed me that those two things can coexist. You know, I can have a relationship with and this has since changed because of course I was still closeted as a witch at this time. I
Laurel Kassor (56:13)
Mm-hmm.
bobbi (56:13)
was let me show you all these parts, but I'm gonna hold this one for for a little while. so also juggling those things, you know, juggling my own philosophies while as a camp counselor, having to form
Vesper services for for the campers. And they weren't super strict on what we did or how we did it. We just had to do it in some way. So we got to create that that that way to connect spiritually. So I got to weave in a bunch of my own little animists and witchy themes into those things, but tying it to the Bible. it it was a very interesting time that fed my sense of self and at the same time challenged everything I grew up with. You know, everything I learned from the the the evangelical.
Southern Baptist teachings that you know my nana and mom kind of were steeped in.
Laurel Kassor (56:58)
Hmm. That's magical. That sounds so magical.
I'm like, my gosh, this is the truly one of the best case scenarios you could have with some of this energy because it did put you in to such diversity. And I love that. I really do think Jupiter has so much to do with diversity. I think it has so much to do with culture. I think it's v if Jupiter in the twelfth house is is very coexist bumper sticker to me. You know, it really is
And it's clear that the dismantling that was going on, although that I'm sure in the moment it could have been confusing because it's like I feel really good, but also I'm like
Sacrificing a lot of everything I've ever believed in at the same time. But this feels really good. But I really this. These people are good people. Like I'm seeing a lot of things that you had said, liberating. And there's that Uranus feature in it. It looks this process, you know, would have been a couple of years, it would have fed from first the liberation and then into the integration over the course of a year or two there.
And so I think as I'm asking you this, we're getting them together. And I feel that what you're sharing through that story is that at first it was, wow, revelation of like, ooh, mama. Ooh, mama. You know? And
I feel that could have been like, hmm, sometimes things are not as they seem.
But then again, this energy is again making a sextile to your moon. It's making a sextile to Pluto. So it's like, we've already learned how transmute this shit. So the process, although still a heavy process of dismantling everything we believed, it was already being fed by acceptance and belonging. It was already being fed by people empowering you to make your own decisions without a it sounds without.
massive source of pressure from where you were gaining the information from. It was just kind of you were osmosising in the wisdom around you. And that was kind of as a byproduct, creating this: I gotta get rid of the stuff that's not serving me anymore, the stuff that I've outgrown in some way, or that doesn't work with what I'm finding can actually be accepted. And again, I wanna just emphasize: your Sun's in cancer.
And your moon was activated. already in the earlier parts of your childhood covered a lot of various pillar four, either by house or by aspect. But this now we're getting it by sign and by planet, you know? And so we're seeing the same energy start to shift where it's expressed and be but I am learning that I can accept myself and in that process am re-establishing and again this idea of surrendering old ego beliefs.
because I'm seeing that they just don't stack up. They just aren't helpful in me achieving the potential that I can also see and I want. That's what I want. I want to be more like these people I'm seeing around me. I want to blend more with them because they are accepting.
And I also want to just emphasize we have Neptune involved here, the planet of Pillar 12, we have the 12th house involved here, the house of Pillar 12, we have your moon in Pisces. So this is where we're really seeing the empathy and the compassion. We're also seeing, as you had shared, this was a summer camp for all grades integrated, and peoples.
too right? We're having it literally the coexist bumper sticker as a suburcamp here. And we're having people with different disabilities, conditions that would otherwise be forgotten, which is also a feature of pillar 12. The forgotten ones is very much part of the Neptune Pisces 12th house waning semi sextile aspect there. So we're seeing all of these features show up both metaphorically and quite literally.
in this experience. You shared how big the high school musical was, which my God, how fun is that? And that pulls in from what you were able to learn as part of this experience, a part of this learning experience here. And so I really something that popped in for me as you were talking about it was that you said this really where it all integrated for me. Was it you can do both. You can have both. You can be it all.
bobbi (1:00:59)
Absolutely. Y and you know, as you were I as you were kind of saying that I literally was finding myself grounding back into the memories of that time and it it really was confusing to
Experience chosen family, you know, the difference between family of origin and chosen family, and kind of hitting that reality of I get to choose who I who I surround myself with. I'm not tied to my family of origin, which created its own problems, as I'm kind connecting back to
Laurel Kassor (1:01:28)
Of course.
bobbi (1:01:30)
looping back to now, re-redeveloping relationships with family of origin. But you know, I get to choose the people that I surround myself with and learn from and experience.
religion or spirituality with. you know, in and and taking on responsibilities that people usually in junior high school you're not
the typical d junior in high school isn't wiping the butt of another adult, you know. You y
Laurel Kassor (1:01:53)
Mm-hmm.
bobbi (1:01:54)
they don't have those experiences, they don't have that care, that experience of tending to, literally physically tending to someone spiritually tending to somebody. we could talk about, you know, I'm looking back with some rose colored glasses, but we were trauma counselors, very unlicensed trauma counselors, with a bible in our hand. There were some death experiences at the summer camp.
where counselors have experienced and you know we kind of had to lean on each other and counselors who who built relationships with those people
Very, very interesting waters to be thrown into and it taught me a lot. It taught me a lot of you know expectation and really parsing out belief, parsing out
Laurel Kassor (1:02:37)
Mm-hmm.
bobbi (1:02:38)
what what feels good to me, who do I want to be around, what beliefs do I want to be around, and what doesn't feel good to me.
Laurel Kassor (1:02:45)
Mm-hmm.
wow. We really could sit here and just talk about summer camp for three more hours. I swear we
bobbi (1:02:49)
yeah.
Laurel Kassor (1:02:50)
could. So there were deaths at the camp?
bobbi (1:02:52)
Not at that point, but
coming back a little bit later from 1718, no, but I did come back to the summer camp after missing a summer and there was a death then. So when I came back, probably nineteen twenty, was w that that process of being you know a grief counselor to to co-workers and campers
Laurel Kassor (1:03:11)
Mm-hmm.
I really do I look at these as bubbles even if it wasn't like right there at the front when like the awareness all came online this is still a moment where hey Pluto got activated so this idea of grief which is also by the way grief is Neptune and pillar twelve but death is Pluto and eight
And and that. So I'm like, okay, this is interesting because the camp activated all of the sorts of awareness. It doesn't mean that everything happened at one exact moment though,
but this event would have been part of what would have brought online a new level of grief awareness and how one navigates literally the opening sextile echo pillar is about how we like literally connect dots between things, how we navigate loss Neptune and
death, Pluto and the pains of grief and loss. And so I find a lot of folks who work specifically with grief counseling or death dua, or very deep, you know, liminal work
That they often have intermingling pillar 12 and pillar eight things going on, which makes a lot of sense when you think eight is the transition and the transformation, but twelve is the release and the and the dissolve, right? So I digress, I digress. I know we could stay there for a long time, but let's hustle to the next.
the next one happens it looks we're in here we're getting into our twenties
I'm looking around 23, 24-ish. not quite a Saturn's return, although there would be very heavy Saturnian themes. this is where your Saturn came online, a very clear vantage point.
This is Saturn and Aquarius. It's in the sixth house. So this tells us that this has something likely to do with the work or with authorities, that work tasks. How am I gonna be useful? no, I'm not a master of any of these things that I need to be a master of. Our confidence looks like it might have been taken a little bit of a hit at this moment, too. the sun and the moon are the only ones making contact with Saturn,
and so we're seeing a opening quincunx
From your Sun to Saturn, which has a pillar six undertone. So Chiron, Virgo, Sixth House, which is where Saturn is. So that ramps up the volume louder on, this has to do with our usefulness. This has to do with our competence. This could be health as well. Health wraps right up into these things. This has to do with training or practices or well-being in some way. And then it also activates a waxing
Semi-sextile, so it has a pillar two kind of torn slow down, hold your horses undertone, consolidate with your moon. So can you tell us a little bit about what was going on in your mid-20s around these themes?
bobbi (1:05:58)
yeah.
Lots. So
all of that buildup to the magical moments my junior and senior year very much had a deflating moment when I went
Laurel Kassor (1:06:05)
Mm.
bobbi (1:06:06)
off into the real world, quote unquote.
Laurel Kassor (1:06:08)
Mm-hmm.
bobbi (1:06:09)
you know, I got married young, 23, which was great. That was a life-saving relationship through what we're about to talk about, you know, joining the military at that time, being trained as literally a battle medic,
Laurel Kassor (1:06:22)
Battle medic, you said, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
bobbi (1:06:24)
hospital corpsman in the military. and
And then also going into that system, you know, pr it was around
Laurel Kassor (1:06:30)
Systems.
bobbi (1:06:31)
the time of don't ask, don't tell, and I was re I was you know what, they just opened a door for me. Why don't I jump through it? You know, without really thinking about it. There were other things that influenced my journey through the military, but you know, it really put me into a dark time. You know, mental health came in big time. First time I started seeing a therapist, really, because of the depression. You know, I had developed a really unhealthy pattern.
Of eating to even get into the military. You know, I had to lose weight, and you know, through the military, there's very strict adherence to, you know, weight and body, what your body needs to look and you know, had a very unhealthy relationship with that, on top of working in the healthcare setting. So see seeing things, learning things, hearing other people's experiences who have been off and and and what they saw tending to them.
everything that I had opened up junior and senior high school closeted back in because the military being a new system, and now I have to survive in a different way. You know, I'm in units with these with these cisgendered men who are very triggered of just by me existing, you know, by my voice. You know, I I haven't really been able to unless I consciously deepen my voice, it's not my natural tone, and and people can pick up on it.
right away and that was a very you know around that time very scary settings to be in after having that big expression and being met with with joy and wow you really like me and now instead being met with wow you don't like me and that's actually super unsafe because I'm sleeping next to you and and you know those those kind of themes but also
One of the beautiful things in that moment is my marriage, you know, meeting my husband, getting married. We literally got engaged within four months of dating. you know, very very queer. It could have gone very south.
Laurel Kassor (1:08:21)
Ha ha ha.
bobbi (1:08:22)
We tell people all the time we are the exception, not the rule. And he has a Capricorn stellium. So you're you're talking about this relationship to Saturn. I'm like, Saturn came in through the structures, through the military, through the industry, and through my relationship with my husband.
Showing me all the different sides of of Saturn. Yes.
Laurel Kassor (1:08:40)
Saturn's a multifaceted motherfucker, dude. I know that we love to
joke about how tough and tumble Saturn is, and it is. And it is, but like, gosh, ever since I've really readjusted my lens, it's hard for me to only look at Saturn as this big baddie these days. it really is. Saturn is such a
Heavy planet, but God, the weight feels good to lift when you are lifting in good form. it is a badass energy once you embrace it. I mean, that's my moon conjunct Saturn speaking. I can hear the words the embrace Saturn coming out of my mouth. I'm like, that's just because I had to learn how to do that. That you know. But it's good advice for everyone,
bobbi (1:09:16)
Yes.
Laurel Kassor (1:09:17)
in
Except that there are going to be tight tense times and that systems
have their pros, their cons.
bobbi (1:09:25)
Yes. yes.
Laurel Kassor (1:09:28)
there are a couple things I love to pull out about what you said. so again, this is Saturn in the sixth house. we're having this attunement, refinement
pillar activated that has to do with Chiron who we've already in met and engaged with a little bit. but one of the things I associate this pillar with is medics. over doctors, I don't think that I don't associate this pillar with wounded healing necessarily, but I do associate it with medics, like triage. Literally triage. literally diagnose what's wrong. let's figure out what we're even gonna treat.
all of that, that's that's all pillar six stuff, right? we see Saturn here as
Job, career, career, mastery of processes, mastering techniques, mastering being of use and literally entering the service to be of service in the service. So I think that that's really interesting. I think that the military in general really speaks to your Mars on the ascendant. There is just we can't ever s escape that Mars is gonna be up front and we're just gonna be
ready to act you know that's that mars on me i'm ready to go let's go let's go after what we want yeah it's like mars in leo that ascended there
But this Saturn here it's is retrograde. And so so is your Pluto, so is your Neptune, so is your Uranus. It's not uncommon to have them retrograde. it tends to reflect a
unique or different way of experiencing said planets themes. like, yeah, that's not what I would have expected. But tracks with everything
That's available on the grand spectrum there, you know? So what we're also hearing here with this Saturn thing is like, gosh, gosh, golly, gee, the real world is definitely not what I just thought it was.
And it's a little ironic feeling, I bet, because like Saturn does govern Neptune and Uranus for you. But now you are meeting that governor and he's like, hey, tough shit, You gotta change your perspectives. Again, he's asking you to master your perspectives when it comes to what is your duty. You know, I think that that's a big
Big feature of when pillar 10 meets pillar six. I think duty becomes a big question And so it's interesting to see and hear about how obligations, responsibilities started to come through in a way that disrupted what you thought you had just learned. Which again, this is Saturn in Aquarius here. It's also Saturn connecting to your Uranus.
over there. but it is
Interesting too because it's these structures were actually helpful, even though they also felt dangerous at various times. Which I want to point to the opening quincunx that your sun makes to Saturn, where it is like, I gotta figure out how to protect my identity. There we go with the sun on cancer. so that I stay safe inside of these systems that are going to advance me somehow. Because obviously.
You wouldn't have joined it if you didn't feel there was advancement. Likely, you know, I'm paying for college, I would imagine, is probably one of the big draws for why people join the military, right? And the benefits that come with it. So it's kind of it was kind of saying, hmm, if we want to advance, if we want to disrupt what we know of what life can be, if we want to get what we want to get, which is also again pulls back to that Mars
Conjunction to Venus, going after what we want. We're gonna do it big. This energy would have brought into this, I am bound by these rules and these duties and these obligations, but will they protect me? I have to figure out how do I keep myself safe inside of systems that say they're gonna protect me, but also don't seem to be all that willing.
and I think that caution is a word I really want to bring up around this energy because that is a pillar six essence I believe that caution would be associated with Chiron with Virgo with the sixth house because it's you're being wary. You know what I mean?
bobbi (1:13:22)
It's absolutely spot on just because you know, in even the way you you know, bringing it back to kind of the beginning of what you were saying, emoting, you know, going into the world with a jolly mask on, you know, everything that I had built towards in those earlier years, I sang cadence while I was training in the military, you know, as we're marching through the schools. I'm the one singing left, right, left, right and different, you know, songs and kind of getting picked on there for having a you know, they
I used to say I had a pop voice compared to the other ones who were singing so bluntly and militant, I was the cheerful one, and you could see my entire unit kind of marching down the the the school and through my time in the military losing that connection and that confidence in my own voice, having to change who I what I even sounded like, who I was, and how I was showing up to the people around me for safety, and having to build that in ways and and and literally.
It was so sobering because I joined the military thinking I was gonna be an X-Men, I was gonna be a Power Ranger, I'm here to help, I'm here to serve, I'm you you know, that's how they got me and then really disillusioned because the culture shock I got to experience in the at camp and at Disney World when I I did an internship at Disney World and the military, even more, you know, people from all around the world coming together, training together, learning together, learning different experiences.
you know, we talked a little bit earlier about having to edit edit the things
Laurel Kassor (1:14:47)
Mm-hmm.
bobbi (1:14:47)
I'm saying, major moments in in in those years of whoa, this is gonna get me in trouble, not just with authority, but with my peers. You know, if I stand out or disrupt too dramatically, that's gonna be that's I'm gonna get reprimanded. I'm gonna lose my shot
Laurel Kassor (1:15:03)
Mm-hmm.
bobbi (1:15:04)
at promotions. I'm going to have Yes. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (1:15:06)
the advancement thing. This is the advancement thing,
bobbi (1:15:10)
You know, who you are and how you show up, how you perform in the military is really tied into your advancement opportunity and you know, those opportunities
really got cut short for me for a lot of reasons. Most of that being how I was showing up visually. You know, being a bigger person in the military, being reprimanded
Laurel Kassor (1:15:27)
Mm-hmm.
bobbi (1:15:27)
for that. And also, you know, nobody blatantly said it, but I I did get reprimanded by peers for for showing up too queer or too disruptive in those ways when there are we're strict we're in the military. you have to be serious here. And then of course learning what that meant with the real world systems and what our military even
means in our society, you know, having to
Laurel Kassor (1:15:47)
Ugh Yeah.
bobbi (1:15:50)
come to terms with all of that and what I really signed up for really hit me.
and even that choice, coming to terms with if this was my choice, what the fuck did I just get myself into? And and really having to live with that for the five year contract. You know, I got I got out, at the end of the five years, you know, they wanted me to re up and I'm like Absolutely the fuck
Laurel Kassor (1:16:07)
bye.
bobbi (1:16:08)
not. I'm gonna take my chances and and and head out with this one. So literally having to
Come to terms with what I signed up for, learning systems, learning the structure of the world, you know, the the the social climbing ladder, what you have to do to move up in in our society,
What's viewed as worthy and what's not viewed as worthy, especially in that military setting. You know, having to really learn their jargon, learn their way of being, and if you can emulate that, you're gonna do great. And of course, you know, in my early time in the military, I did really well. You know, I got the rules really quickly. I picked up on exactly. I formed that mask. Yes.
Laurel Kassor (1:16:44)
You masked. You're masking this is you're telling the same story from when you were
going back and forth with your cousins and your family earlier and you were
bobbi (1:16:52)
Absolutely.
Laurel Kassor (1:16:54)
having to learn the fucking rules and if I act like this that good, if I act like this is bad. It's the same exact story turning over
bobbi (1:17:01)
Yes.
Laurel Kassor (1:17:02)
at a different scale.
bobbi (1:17:03)
A a hundred percent. And it that mask was really good. And that mask got me sick really quickly because that's where the mental health thing came in. Because the longer I had that mask on, the more it glued to my face and I couldn't get it off, like goosebumps style. And I didn't want this mask to be my permanent identity. So I had to do something to get it off. And for me it looked like showing up as I really am, those last two years in the military were like, fuck y'all, I'm gonna do what I need to do to get through my
day-to-day and I'm gonna set myself up for when I get out. You know, I started going to school. I got my associate's and bachelor's degree and my first master's while I was in the military because I was actively setting my exit plan. You know, I needed an exit plan and I set myself up for that. So at the end of it I could step away from it. But I did not want that mask glued to my face.
Laurel Kassor (1:17:58)
Mm-hmm.
rightly so. Really you made responsible long term decisions is what I'm hearing too. It's what
bobbi (1:18:05)
Yes.
Laurel Kassor (1:18:05)
inside of the you know, f finger quotes, but inside of the prison you signed up for with yourself inside of this the system that i I keep the words prison keep wanting to come to my brain because I feel maybe that's part of how you felt at that point, that you were like very entrapped there.
bobbi (1:18:20)
yes. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (1:18:23)
but then it's clear
To see how in even inside of that space, you were like, well, then god damn it, I will figure this out. I'm gonna do what I have to do to prepare, which again is training, which again was making decisions that were going to make you sure that you felt safe as you advanced in the world once you advanced out of that phase, this is really relevant to I feel like the work that you do with people as well is like helping them make proactive good decisions with what
what is available to them at the time, which is also like very Saturnian, like what do what you gonna do with the time you have, That set them up for success, which is Saturn as well.
And then not to only focus on the military part, but you met your husband around this time too. And this is also where Saturn was making a connection to the moon. so the moon's in Pisces, it's in the seventh house. So this does give this kind of how are we gonna consolidate this?
safe fantasy world that we wanna have. And not fantasy like not real, but fantastical, if you romantical, you know what I mean? that fairy tale romance kind of thing, right? And you you said, we're the exception, not the rule here. But we can see from the way that you were sharing earlier that it did happen. That did happen like that here for you.
bobbi (1:19:37)
my gosh, very literally too, you know, and I often say that's where the the evangelical Southern Baptist part of me kind of came in because I was gonna get married. You know, I I if I needed to get married to you know, that was one of the goals for life. So I often and we me and my husband talk about this all the time 'cause he had a similar kind of vibe going on where, you know, our goal was marriage. We both knew that before we started dating. You know, I said, you know, I
I'm I'm not looking for anything wild and crazy. I want a partner. Are you going to sign up for this? And you know, we did that when we started dating and you know that's what led to the marriage so quickly, which could have been a recipe for disaster.
It could have led to a really bad story of two people who really didn't know each other getting married and forming this union. but in our story, it looked two people getting married choosing to get married and choosing each other and that that choice continually being made throughout our journey. You know, who I was when we first got married is nowhere near who I I was very cis presenting,
was not in terms with the very hidden identity of being non-binary trans, you know, presenting being only a gay man and my husband kind of signing up for that version of me. And through our marriage and relationship, almost setting down these mantles of identity that I had surrounded protected myself with and being like, do you still love me here? do you still love me here? You know, taking off the all these mantles
identity in in him meeting me and every step saying I still love you and I love you even more now that you're showing up more vulnerably or more authentically and really
choosing each other and the it it's very Saturnian but it is very love story. It it's you know this this kind of relationship and and learning you know I can be myself fully with someone so that means I get to be myself fully regardless of what other people think because I have this
Anchoring point for myself, which has built my own self-confidence because through that we've also renegotiated what marriage even means for us and you know our relationship with what we thought it meant, you know, the institution of marriage and how we want to show up in marriage together, and not being tied to those patriarchal ideas of marriage, but really creating something that works for both of us and in and being able to show up as queer.
you know, in ways that it looks for us, non traditionally.
Laurel Kassor (1:22:07)
Mm-hmm.
my gosh, this is so beautiful. I love that.
So much, and it's such a great counter example of what working with Saturn looks You know, the first part of the Saturn phase story was very much like, let me tell you about the responsibilities I took on. Right. But now it's let me tell you about the responsibilities I took on, right? there's it's the same essence, but it's a totally different view of them. It's a totally different perspective of what.
comes out of them even though it was sourcing from quite the same energy which was like I'm serious I want long-term success are you in for long-term success great that means we're gonna figure out our identities together though okay we're gonna do this together acknowledging we're both separate identities and also that it means being serious about structuring something that can hold
Commitments, bonds, promises, vows over time. I think vows is a word that makes so much sense for pillar seven in Libra, Venus, the seventh house, the opposition aspect. Obviously, your moon is in the seventh house, which is where we're pulling this like pillar seven essence from. But it's in Pisces, so it is about like this leap of faith.
bobbi (1:23:24)
I love the word vow as well because that's what it feels And you know, renegotiating, I think that's part of it, is is figuring out, okay, we had very similar reasons for wanting to get married. And now we're building a life together. And that building takes effort. We get to create the system that we're going to be swimming in. You know, we get to create the pool that contains the water. He's got a cancer moon too, so it's you know, the it
It's very watery sometimes, but you know, I said, he also has a Capricorn stellium And we kind of joked before recording, I literally don't know where I would be without that relationship because it cre it it gave me a sense of structure. And
Laurel Kassor (1:24:04)
Yeah.
bobbi (1:24:04)
you know, I know it's taboo to say a sense of identity, but I think relationships teach us a lot about ourselves in that way. You learn more about yourself being in relationship with others, and even more
Laurel Kassor (1:24:14)
A million.
bobbi (1:24:15)
intimate parts being in intimate relationships with others, and it it takes effort.
not to move into codependency, but to to be in interdependency, you know, relying on each other for different things in different ways. It's okay that you know he's his own person and I'm my own person and we get to come together to create something beautiful together. it it's
Laurel Kassor (1:24:36)
yes.
bobbi (1:24:38)
it's been amazing and life saving. You know, I don't I really don't think I would have made it through that mental health struggle in the military without this
anchor point for myself.
Laurel Kassor (1:24:47)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
I think that the moon became a safe.
fantasy to escape into that could hold you in a way where you that fit the boundaries and the responsible advancement that you were both looking for, you know? And so that is a really positive way that this energy came because you it sounds like you both showed the fuck up to do the work required of you both.
and did it all the first time is what I'm hearing too. Or did your best to do it the first time and then really kept going with it. But it seems like it it has been relatively recently, maybe around 34.
Ish that there was something. Now it's okay too if you're like, I don't know if I fully know what that is yet. So I'll just name some themes, and if anything comes up, it will s we'll roll with it. But this is the moon. so it would have you know,
So pretty recently. But this would be, I would imagine, have a lot of really beautiful things attached to it. This is your moon. Yes, it's an aspect with Saturn, so it is doing its like consolidating long-term plans kind of thing, long-term fantasies. It's still doing that. But it is also in a sextile to Uranus Neptune. It's also in a trine to your Pluto. It's also in a trine to your Sun.
in a sextile to your M.C. it is in a waning
quincunx So it has pillar eight undertone alchemy to Jupiter. But otherwise, it's actually really like, yes, let's demonstrate, let's talk about it, let's teach it, let's show it up, baby. Let's disrupt the world. it's like I'm ready and I feel safe enough, is what it's giving.
bobbi (1:26:23)
Yeah, you know, recently it it because it's also interesting thinking about it because it again it's so much grief on top of so much transformation and and coming out again. You know, 33 I came out socially
professionally and and let everybody into the world of being non-binary trans and and considering going through transition and how much I want to or how what that's gonna look like for me in relationship with that. You know, I graduated from another master's program in mental health counseling, becoming a counselor and choosing to go right into a PhD program for counselor education because you know these traditional thoughts and systems and counseling are
Are not great and they need to be shifted. They needed to be changed and there need to be voice, many voices that come together to help sh change these systems from within. and
You know, there's there's been a lot of identity and re-emergence of parts that have not even had they've not been able to feel the warmth of the sun because I didn't let them out of the closet. And now they're finally being let out. And the fool is very big for me this year. You know, I'm embracing that fool. I'm I'm letting myself be a shapeshifter, you know, while also being anchored into who I am and letting these parts come out as different characters while still being tethered to who I am. You know, it's
still authentic because it it's changing the the scope on a kaleidoscope you know each character changing how we how we see it and those colors kind of forming and it's all beautiful but still authentically connected to myself rather than losing myself and these characters and and choosing intentionally that way you know choosing which which ones feel good and which ones are helping me find a sense of self and which ones are mm they're better off in this media let's leave that there and
renegotiating relationships, you know, real realizing who is supportive, who who can nurture me back, you know, who isn't just connected to me because I'm doing something nurturing for them, who can meet these parts of myself, and still want to be there, you know, talking about identity and queerdom and coming out nonbinary trans and and losing some significant relationships while also gaining new ones. You know, that popular saying of you
haven't met everybody you're gonna love is very prominent for me right now because it I this kind of reworking and reintroducing myself to family of origin who are willing to show up and accept and be curious in that and losing chosen family that I had acquired through these previous experiences that aren't willing to show up in that. And you know trust is a big thing in this time as well. so much, so much
Laurel Kassor (1:29:08)
every piece of it is so relevant to both pillar four, moon, cancer, fourth house, the opening square, and pillar twelve, which is the Pisces Neptune 12th house, waning
semi-sextile, I mean. but yeah, there's so many things in there. I love the family of origin. Obviously, that's very moon. That's very, very moon. There's a there's a quality of the 12th pillar I'm hearing run through everything you just said, which is a little bit of surrender in the trusting the process. Of course, trust is the pillar twelve part of trust the process and process.
Is pillar six. So it's that access is trust the process. but this trust the process thing, this forgiveness quality of opening up to maybe there's some family of origin who's ready to be compassionate and to be empathetic, to be curious, to
Transcend. That's a huge word I wanna offer to this pillar, to your story, to this energy, to this moment that you might be having as you're living out and through some of this moon bubble in real time is this transcending support. And that works on multiple fronts. What you described, I when I work with my clients, I often call these periods of time. it's a phase up, but it often feels like a phase out. And
That's because you've
Elevated in some way. And I think that that's a big quality of some of this Pillar 11 and Pillar 12 energy. I bring Pillar 11 into it because this is your moon in a waning Trine to your Sun in the 11th house, and it's the moon in an aspect with very directly Uranus there. So we have Pillar 11 stuff which has to do with liberation and elevation, right? Neptune and Pisces' stuff, which is Neptune's also involved.
Here, hello, is the transcendence, it is the dissolving, it can be the loss and the grief qualities of what you're experiencing, which are very real and not happening separately from anything else. And neither is this unifying transcendent thing that's also going on, this integration thing that's also going on. That's happening coincide. Whenever Pillar 12 gets involved, which on this show it's fucking often.
Because it is the pillar of the mystics and the oracles and the healers and the shit
bobbi (1:31:23)
Yeah it's
Laurel Kassor (1:31:24)
that, right? But whenever pillar 12 gets involved, things become very multifaceted and they become very multidimensional and they become very messy. one of my favorite words, in fact, for this pillar at all is just straight up messy, bro. it's a goopy process, dissolving, disappearing in some way. And so there are gonna be things that are disappearing, but there's also things that are.
tr that are culminating as well, that are anchoring in as well, that are ready to be expressed in new ways. Because odds are from basically just a straight up frequency standpoint, Your frequency is shifted to accommodate a different reality, essentially. And so what is no longer and I know this like so cliche, but what doesn't fucking suit you is is
staying at a different level than you. And so it's gonna bring in new folk. It's gonna bring out old folk. It's gonna bring back cycle back, y'all. Cause there's a very cancer Cancerian quality to cyclical things, right? And this nature of of give and take. And so this idea we're ready to start expressing some empathy and some forgiveness. We're ready to receive some empathy and some fucking forgiveness, bitches. y'all better
They get right if we're coming back into
This orbit here, you know. and then of course there is the moon's opening trine to Pluto that's being activated here. And so there is a lot of active transmutation. There's a lot of active healing that's been going on. Now it's nice that most of this is trines and sextiles It doesn't mean that it's easy though. It doesn't mean that it's not void of difficulties. the energy is in
Inherently are kind of hard. Pluto's kind of a hard dude. Uranus has
bobbi (1:33:06)
yeah.
Laurel Kassor (1:33:06)
got it takes a real special glove to touch, you know what I mean? and your Jupiter also, is being activated here. So there are beliefs or beliefs that
Have been buried or closeted or hidden in a lot of different ways that are now be ready to be held. And some of that might be relationships because this is the moon in the seventh house. So this does have to do with what promises did I make that are actually just really unhealthy for me right now, that don't serve me, or the space I'm creating that feels safe to the light.
that I'm am anchoring into, that I am building here that you know cozying up with, I just got an image of you getting all warming and cozy, you know.
bobbi (1:33:47)
Yeah, absolutely. And as you were saying that, I I had this visual of a bird creating its nest. finally found a spot where I feel safe enough to even build that nest. And and now I'm figuring out who's in the tree with me. who's in the tree of safety with me? And and really nurturing each other as community, not just being a nurturer and f you know, holding on to relationships or friendships, because that was my identity and those relationships and friendships.
Was the nurturer, was the therapist friend. And of course, that shows up in other ways in other relationships, but really solidifying who I am versus how I show up at work, how I show up in my marriage, how I show up in my friendship groups, with this new lens of identity. And opening it feels opening up the final closet. And I say that and know it's dramatic, but the final closet. And even as I'm saying that, I feel like the spirit is left.
Laughing at me, like haha, you think this is the last one? Pluto like is
Laurel Kassor (1:34:45)
Hehehehehe
bobbi (1:34:47)
the orchestrator of your whole I feel like Pluto's looking at all my planets and and composing. It's the person do doing all that for the band and just activating these peer these periods of time in my life, like haha, you think this is the last closet you're gonna be opening up? Probably not, but right now it does feel like that dramatic. Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (1:35:07)
there isn't another big fat plot point until you are well into your 70s. So,
bobbi (1:35:14)
Period.
Laurel Kassor (1:35:15)
this is a huge one, and everything you're describing about is really nice. that's probably what you're sensing. yeah, yeah, it's not the last one, but like don't get too cozy. You only got a few more decades.
bobbi (1:35:26)
Exactly. Yes. Yeah.
It's like let be your bright and shining self and also do it with this sense of
Purpose and sense of vow. What's that vow for myself? You know, we talked about vow and relationship, but what's my vow? What's my philosophy? And I love that question in the beginning there. You know, that that that that more existential view of how are you even forming, like what's informing the way you're showing up in this world? And I feel that's where I'm at right now is making that vow with self and really leading with that. and it it feels beautiful. It is beautiful. There's been a lot of
Of tears, lots of lots of crying, lots of releasing, lots of surrendering, and embodying that fool, doing it and knowing that spirit has helped me when no one else has, and I'm good. I can walk off this cliff knowing that I'm gonna have the wings to carry myself forward. And who wants to fly with me? Who's capable of flying with me? Yes.
Laurel Kassor (1:36:24)
Me, pick me. I wanna fly with you.
Bobbi, I'm so freaking touched to hear your story. I love your story. You are a fucking delight, a truly a cosmic delight.
bobbi (1:36:35)
Yeah.
Laurel Kassor (1:36:36)
This has been so much fun. I honestly don't even want to get off this call with you
right now.
But can you tell us where we can find you?
how can people continue to engage with you? Tell us a little bit about your podcast and where we can find it.
bobbi (1:36:52)
Yeah, yeah, you know, because of who I am as a therapist, I kind of keep that world separate from how I show up online. You know, my accounts on Uncorked Witch have gone through many lives through through these chapters. but that's more of my myself. I I'm showing up and expressing that's for me. And I don't work with people that follow me on social media for for that reason, keeping that kind of container and and sanctuary. That is therapy. and
podcast, Y’all What The Fuck? where me and one of my best friends and sisters, Margaret, just chat about everything that's going on in the world, how we're processing the world around us, you know, what's going on for us, and and and the news we're taking in while also keeping it so so the the seriousness that is the world and then part two of that same episode will be pop culture. You know, how we're coping, what media are we watching?
How are we choosing to escape and not just subconsciously escaping? You know, what where are we plugging into to survive the world that is happening and then we're all feeling
Laurel Kassor (1:37:56)
That's literally
from your stor that's from your childhood story. you're literally
you d you took it and you turned it into the podcast. That's so cool. I fucking love that.
bobbi (1:38:05)
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I can thank Margaret for all of the technical things because if it wasn't for her, I would have no idea what I'm doing and she's an Aquarius, and we love to hear that. so yeah.
Laurel Kassor (1:38:16)
Amazing. everyone go follow Y’all What The Fuck And Bobbi. I just I can't really thank you enough for sharing your story, for being vulnerable with us, for going back into the well of your childhood and sharing what made you made for the work that you do and the impact you make. We really appreciate it.
bobbi (1:38:35)
Thank you and thank you for having me. I was so excited for this and I'm still feeling that excitement and I feel transformation and self-reflection happened here so beautifully. And thank you for the space that you're creating for your guests.
Laurel Kassor (1:38:48)
thank
You it is my greatest pleasure. it's what I was made for. I really, the more I do it, the more I'm like, damn, this is hitting every bit of my chart in such a way that is integrating so many different aspects. And it's really special to have people because I can't exist alone. I can't exist alone, right? that is, and you either, Ceres and Libra. It's Ceres and Libra study. It's I depend on others, right? It's well, how do we do that in a healthy way? How do we
bobbi (1:39:16)
Exactly,
Laurel Kassor (1:39:16)
learn how to do that in a way
bobbi (1:39:17)
yeah.
Laurel Kassor (1:39:18)
where it's mutually beneficial, where everyone feels safe and grounded and and secured and nourished by fed by the experience. that's always been really important to me in my work. I want us to both feel we have are satisfied from what comes through, you know, and the space has been a really beautiful way to allow that to naturally transpire. So thank you for being my friend.
bobbi (1:39:42)
Yes.
that's so beautiful and nourishing.
Laurel Kassor (1:39:46)
Yeah.
And if you want some of your own nourishment, then you can get your chart read by me as well. I love to support you by offering readings and I have resources on my website to help you dig into your soul syllabus and help you get clear on the work that your life has been preparing you for. You can find those and connect with me on my website, soularcastrology.com yap with me on threads at astro underscore Aries, or stalk me on Instagram at soularc underscore astrology. And best of all, you can watch.
These episodes on YouTube. That's right. See our beautiful faces. And don't forget to stay in orbit by subscribing. Leave us a comment to let us know what's landing for you. And of course, sprinkle some stardust on us by sharing this podcast with the Astro Hoes in your life. Speaking of Astro Hoes I got my Astro Hoes sweater in.
bobbi (1:40:36)
And it's beautiful.
Laurel Kassor (1:40:37)
Isn't it so fun? I have a little merch shop. I'll link that in the notes too. but yeah, it's super cute. Go get yourself an Astro Hoes sweater.
shirt and until next time my friends ad astra
