EP19 Putting Practice into Spiritual Practice: Why the Industry Needs a Revolution with Desiree Diaz

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EP19 Putting Practice into Spiritual Practice: Why the Industry Needs a Revolution with Desiree Diaz

At thirteen, she dreamed of buildings collapsing, ash-covered streets, and people running for their lives—half a world away. Seven days later, the Twin Towers fell.

Now, three decades into her spiritual practice, she's calling for a different kind of collapse: the dismantling of a spiritual industry where visibility is mistaken for mastery and performance has replaced practice.

Meet Desiree Diaz, witch, conjurer, spiritual mentor, and founder of Sacred Wise Magic. In this episode of Made for This, she joins Laurel Kassor for a live Soul A.R.C. Astrology™ birth chart reading exploring ancestral wisdom, extraordinary intuitive experiences, and the road to spiritual mastery.

Through Desiree's Sagittarius fourth-house placements, Laurel explores family, belonging, ancestral connections, and early spiritual development. Desiree shares stories of learning tarot from her mother, discovering witchcraft in Italy, and experiencing vivid dreams—including one she recalls having before September 11, 2001.

The reading also explores Ceres conjunct Venus in Capricorn and its waning quincunx to Chiron in Gemini in the tenth house, connecting Desiree's experiences with the skills, knowledge, and professional authority she's spent decades developing.

Together, they confront a contradiction: inexperienced practitioners rushing to offer spiritual services while seasoned practitioners hesitate to become visible.

Because maybe the spiritual revolution doesn't need more people claiming authority. Maybe it needs more people who've actually earned it.

In this episode, we explore:

• Spiritual industry reform, integrity, and authentic leadership

• Sagittarius fourth-house placements, ancestry, and spiritual upbringing

• Pluto in Scorpio, childhood experiences, and developmental astrology

• Ceres conjunct Venus and the alchemy of spiritual practice

• Chiron in Gemini in the tenth house: skill development, mastery, and authority

CHAPTERS

00:00 — Meet Desiree Diaz: Witch, Conjurer & Spiritual Mentor
01:57 — Why the Spiritual Industry Needs a Revolution
03:55 — Spiritual Mastery, Visibility & Feeling Safe to Expand
06:10 — Developmental Astrology & the Lunar Nodes
14:14 — Pluto in Scorpio: Childhood & Transformation
27:00 — Sagittarius Fourth House: Family, Belonging & Beliefs
30:43 — Learning Tarot, Witchcraft & Ancestral Wisdom in Italy
31:52 — Ancestral Connections, Dreams & Spiritual Experiences
33:06 — Dreaming of the Twin Towers Before 9/11
43:09 — Ceres Conjunct Venus in Capricorn: Desire & Resources
45:07 — Chiron & the Waning Quincunx: Alchemy & Refinement
46:20 — Plant Spirits, Spell Oils & Developing Her Craft
47:24 — A Near-Death Experience at Seventeen
1:01:19 — Chiron: Skill Development & Spiritual Mastery
1:29:43 — Ancient Wisdom & Spiritual Industry Integrity
1:30:34 — Claiming Her Calling & Sacred Wise Magic
1:33:02 — Business Channeling & Spiritual Mentorship
1:34:35 — Connecting the Life Story: What You Were Made For

ABOUT DESIREE

Desiree Diaz is a witch, conjurer, spiritual mentor, and founder of Sacred Wise Magic. With 30 years of experience in spirituality and witchcraft, she brings a deeply practiced perspective to spiritual education and entrepreneurship. Featured in Forbes, Glamour, Elle, and Dazed, Desiree supports practitioners and business owners through business channeling and mentorship, emphasizing integrity, mastery, and a meaningful relationship with their craft.

CONNECT WITH THE GUEST

Instagram: @sacredwisemagic
Threads: @sacredwisemagic
Website: https://bio.sacredwisemagick.com

ABOUT LAUREL KASSOR

Laurel Kassor is a professional astrologer and the neurodivine visionary behind Soul A.R.C. Astrology™. Through birth chart readings, teaching, and intimate conversations, she connects astrological patterns with lived experience to help seekers make sense of where they’ve been, understand who they are, and consciously craft who they’re becoming.

CONNECT WITH LAUREL

Instagram: @soularc_astrology
Threads: @astro_aries
Website: https://soularcastrology.com/madeforthis

TRANSCRIPT

Laurel Kassor (00:10)

Welcome to Orbit Seekers! This is episode 19 of Made For This with Laurel Kassor the podcast where soul-led practitioners, educators, and creatives come together to connect the constellations of how astrology turns from abstract insight to real-world impact when you follow your soul's arc. I'm Laurel Kasser, your Astro Oracle host and the founder of Soul A.R.C. Astrology, and today I have the mystery school mother herself, Desiree Diaz. Desiree has a Sagittarius Sun Sagittarius

and is a Virgo rising. She is a witch, conjurer, spiritual mentor, and the founder of Sacred Wise Magic. With 30 years of spiritual and witchcraft experience and features in Forbes, Glamour, Elle, and Dazed to back it up, Desiree is the realest of real deals. She focuses her work on healers, practitioners, and founders to help them connect with the spirit of their business and stop hiding from the soul calling that they've always known they've had. Desiree has a lineage of

wisdom packed into her chart, and I for one can't wait to connect the dots on how her journey prepared her for this iconic impact. Desiree, thank you for being here. I'm so excited about this.

Desiree (01:18)

Thank you for having me. my god that description and everything I feel like I just need to print it on a shirt and walk around with that Just here you go

Laurel Kassor (01:28)

Just put it all on a card and just be here you go, here you go.

Desiree (01:31)

if you ever wonder who I am there you go. Yes

Laurel Kassor (01:34)

Did I ever

mention I was gonna be a high school English teacher and took a lot of creative writing classes?

Desiree (01:39)

I can see that. That's amazing.

Laurel Kassor (01:42)

We

love a little dramatic flair for an introduction.

Desiree (01:46)

love it.

Laurel Kassor (01:47)

before we dig in and start going deep into the origins story of what makes you you, I would love to hear a little bit more about the work you do and the philosophy that you have around it.

Desiree (02:00)

Yeah. So, yeah, as you mentioned, the work that I do, I think it really has become from this deep, putting together these 30 years of deep experience and really making it then I have all this knowledge and I need to also bring it forward to others. You know, I think for, for example, even with the mystery school and things like that, that was very much my mission of like

I want other people to be empowered to know what safe practicing magic and spirituality is like. And, and, know, and then there's been the evolution of like, okay, I've done my part with that. And, and I'm not anymore for like, you know, baby witches or things like that. I have been for years helping supporting practitioners in creating and expanding their business and

And now you know, I also see, it should feel like you will resonate with this, but the spiritual industry very much needs a revolution.

Laurel Kassor (03:05)

baby, baby. Hit me

Desiree (03:06)

Mm-hmm

Laurel Kassor (03:07)

with that one one more time, for real.

Desiree (03:09)

It

needs a revolution. It needs a whole shift. And so I'm here to bring that shift with getting the practitioners that are meant to support that and show up deeper into all of that and help them fully be themselves in that. So,

Laurel Kassor (03:27)

you

Desiree (03:27)

so yeah.

Laurel Kassor (03:29)

I love that. I call it the new era of consciousness. That's what I've taken to

Desiree (03:32)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (03:33)

calling this new wave that's entering. I think it has so much to do with Neptune moving into Aries, Saturn being little fucking right there looming with it.

Desiree (03:43)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (03:44)

And yeah, I think it is. I think it's a common trend we're seeing emerge as I'm doing some of these interviews. Many of us feel that it is time to bring a little bit more fire, a little bit more heat to the industry, to the field that it doesn't have to

to be so blase and blurry that we can really integrate all aspects of who we are authentically

Desiree (04:06)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (04:06)

into this field and clear up some of some of the ick.

Desiree (04:11)

Yeah, I think a lot of us are also generally fed up with sometimes

Laurel Kassor (04:15)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (04:16)

it all being about drama or all being about, you know, not really being of that integrity.

Laurel Kassor (04:23)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (04:25)

When there might be so many amazing practitioners that are hiding themselves because they see, well, this is all the spiritual industry is about. When it's like, no, we're waiting for you, baby, to step up.

Laurel Kassor (04:37)

Yes, oh, 100%. I can so deeply relate to that. I feel like there's something really special when in my system, I would call them Pillar four, which has to do with support, and Pillar nine, get together, which has to do with reach and expansion.

We're about to dig into how the hell it shows up in your chart, because it definitely does. But it really brings this like, no, guys, it's safe to expand. We're going to make it safe to expand. We're going to make it safe for you to grow. As a Mars and Cancer in the Ninth House person myself, it's very hard for me to take action if I do not feel safe in doing so.

And

in the Ninth House, that has to do with teaching, preaching, expanding, marketing, Saying, hey everyone, look at me and listen to me. I have wisdoms for you. Right? I was studying my craft for 10 years before I felt I could claim the title astrologer and without doing a disservice to the craft, you know?

And yeah, Hidden Gem Healers, it's our time to shine.

Desiree (05:44)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (05:45)

literally, let's go.

Desiree (05:47)

And that part that you just said, I feel like is something that needs to be brought back about. I really need to become really good at mastering the practice and not I've learned this yesterday and now I'm out here already doing it. You know, but instead of you want to be so sure about what you're doing that you don't question yourself and others can question you.

And do you know what you're doing? No.

and I feel like that needs to come back.

Laurel Kassor (06:18)

Yeah, it's an interesting spectrum. It's a full spectrum. Cause it is literally holding yourself back all the way and withdrawing and sheltering Or it is yeeting yourself into oblivion in a dangerous way to you and to others, you know? And I'm sure we're gonna find...

I don't think it's coincidence any of the conversations that come up organically while we're recording the pod, so I'm sure that this idea will come back to roost as we move

Desiree (06:44)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (06:45)

through your story.

Well, let's go ahead and dig into your chart. As you may know, we love to use a little technique that I was taught by one of my former teachers. It's called the developmental age method. And the idea is that wherever planets fall in your chart, there is a corresponding age where we would have basically gotten our first, how do you do hello experience with that planet's energy and essence, thus kind of forming a pivotal plot point.

and pattern point that we'll be returning to at various phases throughout our lived experience. And so I to start at the beginning of these plot points because that tells us when the first big events are. Now, I am, we're gonna try something with your chart, Desiree.

Desiree (07:32)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (07:33)

Usually I jump straight to whatever the first planet is, but the first point.

that falls after your ascendant is actually your south node. So I'm just gonna poke for a minute and see if anything comes up and if not we'll move on to the next planet. But the south node in Soul A.R.C. Astrology we look at the nodes always as a pair, never one without the other. But the focus will be kind of on this south node export.

quality. Now your south note is in Virgo, so also hey you just finished a nodal return, which is really interesting and maybe we'll get a chance to pick at that in a little bit, but this would have likely been something that happened around the age of two, so maybe family remembers and they filled you in on something, maybe you remember yourself directly, but this would...

be a moment where I think to a child would feel a sense of some kind of loss or some kind of confusion, a going away potentially. I think as we get older, it's more of a...

removing from the system what no longer is necessary for the system, but I'm thinking what would a two-year-old experience that you know? But the reason I really wanted to bring it up is because you have one, two, three, four, five, six planets.

at the midpoints of the nodes. So you have six of your, I look at 12 planets, you have six of your, half of your planets are at the bending of the nodes on one side or the other. And so this would have been a moment that would have somehow activated a sense of tension in the life. Does anything come to mind around that age of two?

Desiree (09:25)

So I think on one side, know, I was always extremely activated on the spiritual side from very, very young. So I'm not sure if something would have happened around around that time around that. I think on the other side, I'm trying to remember and it might be completely different age, but I remember that I had this this

where I was in the sort of I can't describe it. I speak four languages and sometimes the words fail me in all of them,

Laurel Kassor (09:55)

you

Desiree (09:56)

which is great. But I was kind of in this the backseat. My aunt was on a bicycle and I was like in the the safe backseat, you know.

Laurel Kassor (10:04)

Uh-huh, uh-huh.

Desiree (10:06)

And she was.

you know, going on the bike and somehow my shoe got off and my foot got in the race of the... yeah,

Laurel Kassor (10:13)

pedal.

Desiree (10:16)

of the wheel. And so I just remember that I had, you know, my whole foot got first and second burn degrees. And then I had to have this very cute fuchsia casket on when I was...

younger so I remember that. I can't remember if it was two or three or

Laurel Kassor (10:37)

Uh-huh.

Desiree (10:37)

maybe four but that's the one thing that was coming in as I was thinking about this.

Laurel Kassor (10:41)

your South node is in

in a square to Saturn, Uranus, Mercury. It's exactly square Mercury. The first thing you named was a bicycle and an aunt So a parent sibling and this is in your fourth house. So I'm like, wow, parent sibling on a bike traveling. It's very like Mercury in the fourth.

making this direct direct super tight thing but then it's also the sun is there and the moon is there at 20 29 we have 24 26 27 28 29 are the degrees of this stellium in Sagittarius but

opposite your Chiron retrograde in Gemini in the 10th house, which means that was also square the node and that also got activated. now in my system, I look at Chiron as a problem solving planet. It is the planetary force that I associate with Pillar six, attunement or refinement. And is the planet associated with Virgo and the sixth house and the opening quincunx aspect or the waxing quincunx.

and they all source from this.

Pillar of consciousness that has to do with figuring things out, of being confident, of being effective, of being efficient, tools, instruments, et cetera.

And this is just what I'm feeling through right now is almost like this was the moment

Desiree (11:59)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (12:00)

where you realize there's a lot I don't know about this world.

Desiree (12:04)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (12:05)

There's a lot I don't know. There's a lot of skills I don't have here because that fucking sucked. Right? Like

Desiree (12:11)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (12:11)

there's a lot of, it gives kind of consequence. Hello, there's Saturn as activated as part of this. has the sun and the moon are activated. again, this is a two year olds what's going through your brain.

around

Desiree (12:25)

You

Laurel Kassor (12:27)

these ideas that have something to do with technical skill and capability because the south note is in Virgo the sign of Pillar six making a square to Chiron the planet of Pillar six now

there's a tension inherent in this moment where it could have just been sensed as like, I don't know how to do things. Like

What am I supposed to do here in these situations when...

My safety is in jeopardy.

how does that feel?

Desiree (13:01)

No, I think it makes a lot of sense. I'm thinking also

Laurel Kassor (13:05)

Bye.

Desiree (13:07)

just like that safety just coming up in terms of just experiences when I was younger. It just makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (13:19)

let's jump forward in time. You just had a nodal return in the past two years and you just are wrapping one, now as the nodes are at zero degrees. So it's it's starting to congeal, I guess we could say in a sense. And so,

The way that I would imagine adult you would have experienced the south node rolling through Virgo, especially with a Virgo south node, would have likely been this sense of it's time for me to finally put this skill out there. It's time for me to finally put this method out there, this practice I have out there. I can't keep it inside of me anymore or I'm gonna explode. It's so uncomfortable to keep this

Desiree (14:00)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (14:01)

inside of me now. And so thus is why I'm this is where the uploading or to the collective happens.

And so I'm how the fuck would a two year old, what

Desiree (14:08)

Hey

Laurel Kassor (14:09)

skill would they be going through? But we know this has something to do with education because the nodes are, because this

Ultimately,

Desiree (14:16)

Mmm.

Laurel Kassor (14:16)

we got this big mutable grand cross here if we include the nodes with this aspect pattern. And it's all mutable, which means it's all about information processing. To me, the mutable sign's all four of them.

It is the element that differentiates what sort of information are we processing. Gemini is

Desiree (14:37)

you

Laurel Kassor (14:38)

literally data, intellectual information. Virgo is technical, practical information. Sagittarius is the wisdom, the kind of conceptual.

identity based kind of information and then course Pisces

Desiree (14:53)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (14:54)

comes in with the emotional, spiritual, unknowable, unseeable, unspeakable information signs, symbols, essence, Aura, right? all the Pisces shit, suffering, loss, all that stuff so but those are all different, they're all different channels of information processing so your chart is so fucking interesting already?

Desiree (15:12)

You

Laurel Kassor (15:13)

Already?

because we just

Desiree (15:14)

And we just started

Laurel Kassor (15:16)

started but right away this grand cross got activated and even if I am kind of stumbling up on yeah I'm not sure what went through two-year-old you's brain there there was something about

I gotta figure out the rules to this reality, dude. this fucking, I don't know about all that. This hurts, I'm confused, what the fuck is a bicycle? What happened? we can only imagine what was going through your mind then, but it's something sparked up about learning at this time.

Desiree (15:43)

Mmm.

Laurel Kassor (15:44)

There's no doubt that this could have been an early indication or early moment of being mm-hmm, we gotta really study this whole begun or thing.

Desiree (15:54)

Yeah, and definitely I think I one of my gifts has always been seeing things in dreams That has sometimes also been bringing Dreams about the future that then would happen and things like that. So I would imagine also You know this starting very very young as well Because

Laurel Kassor (16:13)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Desiree (16:15)

I remember just some memories were yeah, this was happening, but it was just

At that point I already accepted it so I can see how this would be something that had started a lot earlier though. You know what mean?

Laurel Kassor (16:27)

I love that you used the word accept and we're gonna work our way into talking a lot about the word accept here because this

Desiree (16:32)

it.

Laurel Kassor (16:34)

would be, know, technically I guess an opening square that all of the planets are making with this south node and it would technically be a closing square they're making to the north node.

they're in the fourth house as well. So there is this, again, this Pillar four thing is starting to rear its head up and say,

Desiree (16:50)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (16:51)

we need to create a space where we can accept high strange potentially with Uranus

Desiree (16:55)

Mm-hmm. Yup.

Laurel Kassor (16:58)

there with, with five planets there.

I wanna hit actual planets, so if it's okay with you, let's move to your first planet there. Cool.

Desiree (17:06)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (17:09)

This is Pluto in Scorpio. Pluto is in the third house. So we know this time period will likely involve the bubble that is early elementary school, early learning, can often, you know, we to try to get into specific memories to really illustrate the empirical qualities of astrology. So the memories that might come up could have to do with siblings, could have to do with cousins, could have to do with neighborhood, peers, classmates.

nights,

right? that's very Pillar three energy, which is this echo Pillar of the third house. So that's kind of this the setting-esque place for some of this energy to occur. But Pluto and Scorpio, when Pluto shows up, tends to crisis show up. And so this

Typically is a moment that we remember we either remember remember or we have blocked out Do not remember in some way because they tend to be pretty high stakes say it can Feel life and death

This could be some of the heavier shadowy qualities of Pluto, which could be abuse or manipulation or being dominated or overpowered in some way. But yeah, it tends to be a moment we recognize. It creates a loud echo because this Pluto tends to be where the wound is received or seen for the first time.

Desiree (18:35)

Mm.

Laurel Kassor (18:35)

for people who don't have Pluto up front, right? they might witness their wound for the first time before meeting it face to face. This is a face to face meeting of it around age seven, I think here. And then very close, eight is your Mars.

as well. So we can expect this time period to have felt a little dangerous, aggressive, potentially bullying is what comes to mind. It's what popping its head up for me. So that might be an aspect of it. The good news on it is that aside from the general experiences of the energy itself, this was when Neptune was starting to come online.

because your Pluto is in, a sextile, it actually has a Pillar three tone to it, so we have more emphasis on this learning energy of this exchange of this kind of

collaboration type of vibe, where it's, they're reforming. So whatever's going on with Pluto was also.

Neptune was learning how to escape, how to imagine, how to transcend, how to unify, how to get creative, high creative. mentioned, I said the word high strange earlier. feels fantasy came in here, spirit came in here. it could have been early moments where spirituality really reared up as well. this is Neptune and Capricorn.

So I've come to see that often as sacred systems. But yeah,

Desiree (20:03)

Mmm.

Laurel Kassor (20:04)

I yapped a lot. Is this bringing up anything for you?

Desiree (20:07)

I think around that age there was a lot of stuff that started to happen. When I was younger, I did go through some heavy trauma, for sure. So it would definitely have been something that shifted also my energy in terms of safety around people. And then...

I think also around that age, especially more going towards the eight, and probably already before as well, but there was really a shift in also my mother teaching me more about spirituality

Laurel Kassor (20:42)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (20:43)

and stepping deeper into that part. And then that being activated more and more and more to really high levels.

So I think all of that a bit combined. I also, to say, around that age or just a bit after moved from Germany to Italy. And so that was a whole new experience

Laurel Kassor (21:05)

Mm.

Desiree (21:06)

of my world, whole new school, whole new everything, meeting new people.

Laurel Kassor (21:11)

Let's dig into that a little bit because that fits... Okay, yeah, that would really... But that would definitely

Desiree (21:14)

racism and all of that, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. I know.

Laurel Kassor (21:21)

hit the Pluto and the Mars of it all. And some of the Neptune too, which is very much illusions, delusions, know, suffering.

The other, those are marginalization as part of the Neptunian Pillar, that Pillar 12, you know, and so I do think that the racism and the move

would fit a lot of the bill for what this taught you and what you made from this, you know? Because Pluto does have to do with the ways people are abused, right? it has

Desiree (21:55)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (21:55)

to do with these perverse systems.

I do think that Pluto has to do with that which is toxic.

Desiree (22:03)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (22:03)

I think

that Pluto in the third house can speak to ideas, opinions that are toxic. I think that from an experiential reality standpoint, you being a child having moved - hey mars - there to new neighborhoods.

There's the third house to new schools, there's the third house to new countries with new languages, there's the third house making the sextile to Neptune, which also provided a channel to escape into, likely getting more into spirituality with your mother, strengthening that connection there, but also creates this vocal kind of echo.

It's the best way to put it. The name of the Pillar is the Echo Pillar, where these things can maybe feel, especially given the third house location, kind of turning up the dial could amplify some of that, the talk, hearing the talk, the opinions. But then it's also in Scorpio. So there's this other part of me that's like, okay, but it was like.

Microaggressions, also subtle stuff. Things that weren't overt. Things that were overt. That's the impression I get from the chart based on what you said.

Desiree (23:15)

Yeah, no, absolutely. I want to just quickly check one thing. Let

Laurel Kassor (23:21)

Yeah, totally.

Desiree (23:22)

me just Google this very quickly because I'm curious now.

Yeah, yeah, I just

checked that was that would literally have been the period where I would have moved to Italy and started elementary school over there. First experience with with also being pretty much one of the only children of color, one of the only Black children, you know, in a whole new place where I was literally also learning the language for the first time. So then experiencing

massive microaggressions even from the teachers. I remember this memory of one teacher one like literally pulling my hair and this whole yeah I know and this whole thing of then my mom and stepdad being involved like this is not okay so yeah I remember yeah all of that being part of a child learning a whole new language

learning to interact with all new children that most of them in this small town in Italy maybe didn't even see that many Black kids and working through all of that.

Laurel Kassor (24:29)

This is extremely interesting. Thank you for sharing and talking about it because I appreciate that you acknowledged too that you might've been the first Black child that they were ever seeing and your Mars is here as first. Mars represent the Pillar one. Literally impact. literally you are dealing with aggression but also are representing a first.

too. So that's interesting. I think too something that was coming through as you were as you were speaking was the idea that not only was it a new town and new kids, it was a literally new way of being in the world, of being perceived in the world. It was it and with the Neptune energy in this,

It was also as if the first part of your life may have felt like a dream. And this was reality is almost also that energy, which is why I got caught up on the feeling of it because I was like, whoa, that's feeling for a six, seven year old to have oh my God,

I didn't know how good I had it. what is this?

Desiree (25:35)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (25:36)

What is this? What do you mean? why is everything so different? I'm still me. what is going on here? It gives confusion, which is again that Neptune This also is likely where you were, because of the Neptune connection at this point in time, especially to Pluto, the dreams, you had mentioned that you were already having dreams early. I think that this is a little piece of it. and I say this because it is in the third house. It is Neptune.

and symbology, which is in the fifth house of choices and entertainment and all kinds of stuff, but it's like information coming through.

in this moment of transformation. I just feel for the baby.

It's tough up front, and we were talking about this before we started recording, to be a young person in a young person's consciousness having to do with young person problems, but be experiencing a Pluto-sized dose of experience, of reality, of process. How does a seven-year-old metabolize racism? Right? I don't know, but you had to start figuring it out then.

Desiree (26:41)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (26:42)

And then shortly after that Mars came online and it's like now we look back and it's like, that was all a short period of time. But in the moment that would have felt much longer and now it's like hostile. What? And you mentioned the teacher pulling your hair.

Desiree (26:59)

Alright, I was like,

excuse me? Why?

Laurel Kassor (27:04)

can't even

remember where I learned not to touch Black people's hair, but I can't remember ever a time when I thought it was okay. Because I wouldn't want people to pull my hair. It's not that hard.

Desiree (27:18)

But it was like as a punishment, like a punishment, cause like, think she felt like I wasn't paying attention. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna pull your hair to like, get it back. And I'm like, what just happened?

Laurel Kassor (27:32)

No, that is the Neptune in Capricorn, think, being this... the educational authority connection to the Pluto. this is delusional authority, right? it is... and delusion's not the only word...

we can use here, but it's like she made a choice that was confusing. And this is Neptune, it's on Neptune in the fifth, right? That also felt dangerous and coded. And that's, I think, part of this Mars and Scorpio, Pluto and Scorpio. It's kind of hidden dangers. We really learned at this point in time, the world is full of hidden dangers. And remember, this is coming after, assuming we were hitting on something with that south node moment. There's already been this introduction to this idea of like,

Information, I gotta figure this out. Somehow. And now

Desiree (28:17)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (28:18)

we're god, on top of all this just how the world works stuff, there's all this subtle stuff. This invisible

Desiree (28:23)

Yep.

Laurel Kassor (28:24)

stuff that feels really scary. Boo.

Desiree (28:27)

And let me guess on the chart it doesn't stop there.

Laurel Kassor (28:31)

It doesn't. Our next plot point is... And this is worth noting too. One of the things I've noticed about the way that the storytelling has been unfolding is that these themes that we name and we kind of sit and simmer in persist pretty much until the next plot point, in various levels and ways. The next plot point is a huge one. So I expect us to sit here for a minute with this one because this next

Desiree (28:55)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (28:56)

plot point

is Saturn, Uranus, Mercury, the Sun and the Moon. is all of them basically at once. I mean, we are really looking at within a year's period of time of there being a really big shift here. This starts with Saturn though.

and I know you must already know, because you're laughing and smiling over there, you're like, oh girl, I'll wait till I tell you.

for the audience. Let me just name some of the themes we're looking for. So when Desiree, I am sure, is about to whip them all out for us, we will be wow, how about that? But it starts with Saturn. So this is rules. This is authority. This is success and failure energy. All of these planets are in Sagittarius.

All of them are in the fourth house. So this is where I completely expect us to go head first into the Pillar four support.

times Pillar nine reach energy we were talking about before about feeling safe around expansion etc etc you just laid out some reasons in your chronological

Desiree (30:00)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (30:01)

story why it might not feel very safe to expand hello so that's gonna feed us and topple us forward and i i also just want to underline i feel like we didn't emphasize it enough but you are learning about your craft and your practice already

Desiree (30:17)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (30:18)

through

this time period. So we're looking at stuff around home, around family, around belonging. A sense of belonging is going to be a huge undertone here. Around safety, both physical and emotional.

This is just Pillar four, fourth house topics that we

Desiree (30:35)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (30:36)

can context around here. For the Sagittarius context, we're looking for religion. We're looking for belief systems. We're looking for maybe politics, maybe something around morals and principles in some way. With Saturn here, this could have to do with law authority. there could be like literal law stuff going on here, legal.

stuff, dealing with the judgment of authority, dealing with judgments is one of the big things we would be expecting here. This is where I'm clocking so much of the familial ancestry line to really pop to life for you. And as far as I mean, there are five planets here. So

we're gonna we're about to nail on a lot of additional themes other than the fourth house ones and the Sagittarius ones I just

Desiree (31:29)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (31:30)

pulled out and not even all of them which by the way massively education is one of them and travel huge

but this activates Chiron and brings Chiron into full view.

And it's in the 10th house. So we know this has to do with success and it has to do with what you're building long term and what that means and how you think and communicate that. And odds are at this early age, it's gonna feel a little unbalanced in some ways. Kinda wow, I gotta really develop this skill in some way. So let's hear it boo.

Desiree (32:08)

So, as mentioned, obviously started practicing spirituality very young. My mom, I want to say age nine or so, you know, she was already showing me tarot, teaching me tarot, teaching me all forms of divination. And I remember specifically, teenage years as well, we didn't have the internet.

So if we needed to learn things about spirituality in Italy, at that point, there was one spiritual bookshop in Rome that we knew of. if we needed something, that's where we needed to go to get the books. So she was very open to what do you want to learn? I'll get you the books.

Laurel Kassor (32:48)

you

Desiree (32:49)

So she was very much open to that. So I remember throughout my childhood, especially age nine onwards,

me starting to very much initiate myself in witchcraft and really working deep through that. At the same point, you mentioned 13. Okay, yeah.

Laurel Kassor (33:07)

Yes, this is

all very, there's a lot happening, very specific events, events around 12 to 13, a ton, back to back to back to

Desiree (33:16)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (33:17)

back.

Desiree (33:18)

So one of the fascinating things that my mom was always telling me that from very young, she kept feeling that there was this deep ancestral reconnection that I was trying to find. you were a teenager. And it was you were trying to really refine your roots before, you know,

it was deeper than that. And, you know, at that point I was very much in strange, strange form. My father, who kept living in the States. And it was this deep reconnection with my roots was happening and this longing for it. Now.

13 or so would be also a time where I remember one of the deepest dreams that was a vision in the future And fascinatingly, I think it was one or two years ago was speaking to my mom and

telling her about this because I thought that I told her and she was like, oh, that's really fascinating because when I was 13 that happened to me. But to me, whatever I saw that was the whole day, all the conversations, everything, I saw it in a dream before, but it scared me so much that I blocked it and that gift never came back.

Now I am like, this is scary. OK, what else can happen? And I'm like,

Laurel Kassor (34:32)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (34:33)

let's explore more. I've always been a bit this. So I had a very much a prophetic dream. 13 year old or so. There was a big, big event in the world happening. That would have been around the time of 9-11.

Laurel Kassor (34:49)

I knew you were gonna say that.

I knew it. I knew it. I was almost wait, can I guess? I

Desiree (34:54)

You

Laurel Kassor (34:55)

felt it. I saw it actually. Dude, girl,

Desiree (34:57)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (34:57)

we are connected right now because I literally saw a flash of the Twin Towers and I was like she is not. She is going to. Okay, wow. Keep going.

Desiree (35:04)

Yeah. So,

like, mind you, I've never been to New York. Again, I didn't have information of how New York even looked Yeah, maybe some movies, but not like walking on the roads and things like that. And and so I remember having this dream seven days before. Where I am, I'm walking and people are running away and there's all that that smoky clouds.

air, that whitish air of with all the things, the ash, yes.

Laurel Kassor (35:31)

The ash, the ash and debris, yeah.

Desiree (35:34)

And everyone was running away and I just kept walking towards it. And I just kept asking what happened, what happened, because I kept trying to also look up and I couldn't see that much. I remember certain and it's so funny, my mum was in New York recently around December.

And she sent me a picture of this, I think it was cathedral and I was like, I swear I saw that. I had such

Laurel Kassor (36:00)

in the vision.

Desiree (36:02)

a visual reaction, I where is that? And again, so I remember seeing that, I remember walking around and then I keep asking someone, what happened? And someone stops and tells me they're fallen. And I go, what has fallen? The towers.

As soon as that is said, I am brought out of it and I get woken up and I'm literally But again, I'm very young. I'm that's such a weird dream that I had. You know, that's weird. Chilling, weird. I go on with my days, right? And I remember the day that it happened.

very silly, a funny little moment. I was so upset because I wanted a ferret so badly and we went to the shop and they didn't have one and I was like, my whole life is ruined, right? I was like, I need that. I, I desired it so much. And so we had been out of the house the whole day, no access to news. There's no phones, cell phones at that point. Access,

Laurel Kassor (37:00)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Desiree (37:03)

no access to news. We come back home, me and my mom, obviously I'm super upset.

about the ferret situation. give me my ferret!

Laurel Kassor (37:08)

How about the Barrett? Obviously. Yeah.

Desiree (37:11)

Turn on the TV and you know, switch channels and all is the news. And so then we look into the news and straight away I knew what it was.

Laurel Kassor (37:21)

Mm-hmm. The towers.

Desiree (37:23)

straight away I knew what it was straight away was that's what I saw but it scared me so I didn't say anything about that

I didn't say anything to my mom. I was almost if I don't say anything about it to anyone, you know, then it didn't happen.

But the reality is, just since then have always had more situations where either I get more of dreams coming in with specific messages. And again,

Laurel Kassor (37:48)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (37:49)

this is very much ancestral where my ancestors will send me messages through that.

Laurel Kassor (37:54)

Yep.

Desiree (37:55)

So I've had, you know, I think one of the times that I was in New Orleans more recently, recently around the years where you know, six months before going there,

I remember this dream where there was something with the flights and I kept saying it's not my time to get back yet. It's not my time to get back yet. And then and I'm seeing my flights getting changed only for then, you know, there's an issue with the flights and I am stuck and then I need to fly out the next day when I'm there, you know, all these kind of things and messages that

Laurel Kassor (38:25)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (38:27)

keep coming in or things being shown to me. But I remember that.

that one time being this is a different type of gift. And also that was probably the first time that I realized I know I'm not in a dream.

Laurel Kassor (38:39)

Mmm, ooh,

Desiree (38:40)

and I'm walking around and

I'm I know this is not a dream.

Laurel Kassor (38:44)

there's so much I wanna say and I did a pretty good job of holding my tongue, but just, I'm gonna cut in now. Because based

Desiree (38:51)

Yes, yes, please.

Laurel Kassor (38:52)

on what you just said, I'm not in a dream, is really interesting based on that other little piece that came through a minute ago where I was like, what if part of you was like, my earlier reality was the dream and this is reality. And so for it to kind of,

come back around again to be okay, no, I'm not in a dream. There's something interesting going on with like how real is real here. there's an interesting dynamic of exchange and again, it gives this echo-y thing. also had a thought while you were sharing, like there are so many pieces of what you shared where I'm don't lose the thread, don't lose the thread. It's woven so beautifully.

together in your tale but I wondered if... if the nodes being the first engagement of consciousness...

didn't... Okay, here, let me say it like this. You shared something about your mom saying that she knew from an early time that you were here as part of an ancestral sort of portal. I know those weren't

Desiree (39:58)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (39:58)

the words you used, but that's what I soaked up. And

Desiree (40:01)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (40:02)

part of me was yeah, that's the fucking south node that you couldn't name earlier.

Desiree (40:06)

Mmm.

Laurel Kassor (40:08)

was because that squares it to the all of these ancestral lineage planets that I was like the minute I looked at them I was like lineage much

Desiree (40:17)

Yeah

Laurel Kassor (40:18)

and so the connection to the south note it almost makes me be like you're like

existing a little bit outside of time but needing the skills in which to interpret on behalf of ancient wisdom. Does that make sense?

Desiree (40:33)

Mmm. Yeah, absolutely.

Laurel Kassor (40:36)

okay, to the towers. There's more I could say about that. We're gonna, let's sit in, let's simmer in that for a second. To the towers, holy shit!

Whoa! Okay, first of all, the fourth house. This vision happened to you when you were resting. It gives the support Pillar. It's like when I was relaxed and safe, the vision happened. The vision that was actually kind of scary and not that safe. But...

It happened to this place far away. And at this point in time, we didn't make meaning of it. There's our Sagittarius. I think it's not emphasized enough the interpretive quality of Sagittarius, that it's literal. Heart and soul is about interpretation.

there was something very interpretive happening here You had a vision you could see this You could see this thing when you were relaxed and you were safe in your environment

Which and here I'm gonna pull in I mean I could keep pulling I will talk about the planets individually, but I'm gonna go ahead and just pull in that Chiron on the opposite in the tenth house in Gemini The tenth house

belongs to Pillar 10 Pillar 10 features Saturn

who is part of this conglomeration of planets, this corporate entity down in your fourth house that is your Sagittarius stellium.

Desiree (42:05)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (42:06)

Capricorn and the waning square, the closing square.

Remember, we have waning squares to the nodes, to the import node.

And so at this time, when this vision occurred, it was activating both nodes at the same time, you were seeing something that was going to import to the collective or through the collective,

Desiree (42:29)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (42:29)

you were importing through your essence and energy and field, you know? And it created an output, the South node that requires technical skill, but you're not able to interpret yet. You don't know yet.

You know, we don't have

Desiree (42:47)

Mm.

Laurel Kassor (42:48)

the wisdom. There's the Sagittarius And here comes Chiron on the other side, activated for the first time other than the south node earlier, to be like, wow, it is so clear. I don't have the skill yet.

and it's in Gemini. News media. News. Turn on the TV. It was on the news.

Desiree (43:11)

Yep.

Laurel Kassor (43:12)

I mean, it's so literal. It's so literal. Also, I didn't say it before, but I meant to when I mentioned the authority Pillar. The towers. Twin towers.

Desiree (43:20)

Mm, yeah.

Laurel Kassor (43:22)

Twi- You have Chiron in Gemini in the 10th house, and it's the Twin Towers.

It's unreasonable how literal it truly is right now.

What we're seeing with Chiron up there in the 10th house was Saturn here in the fourth Was that this moment could have sparked forth inside the template of your soul syllabus this recognition that like it's time to get very serious

about learning the skills required. Learning the skills required is so literally Chiron and Gemini in the 10th house and having to cultivate them within yourself This is part of the retrograde I would say. I would also say that like such a public

Vision such a profound

Desiree (44:08)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (44:09)

big fatty of a vision

So it's like, wow, I have this big picture, this big idea. Hey, what's the big idea? I got this big idea. I can see big ideas. I can hold them. That's also on this all happening in the fourth house.

this energy is so...

much about being able to hold this big picture, but at that point in time, you're still pretty young. You're still figuring out ooh, if I say anything, that-

might make me fucking weird, Like, that might make them not want me. That might

Desiree (44:44)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (44:44)

set me apart. That might make them treat me differently. They might love me less. These are all fears associated with Pillar four, the support Pillar. And that has to do with rejection.

Not taken in, not taken care of, not accepted, not belonging, not feeling safe.

And I want to again remind us this is following up Pluto and Mars timeframes too.

Desiree (45:08)

I think that definitely was a catalyst of me going even deeper into learning the spirituality, the witchcraft, because I was like, I don't understand what all just happened. I need to learn more. And so I definitely remember that being something where then I went even deeper than I was. Had so many more books, was doing a lot more magic. I even remember at that time, probably in school, trying to get

you know, some girls around let's do magic, but very much you're weird, you know, so then okay, then I'm

Laurel Kassor (45:40)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (45:42)

just doing magic just by myself and all of that. And then I remember at some point again, teenage years, I remember also once being again in Rome and there being at the train station, bookstore that had a spiritual section.

and trying to look at some books there to get and this man shouting at me, you're going to go to hell, know, loudly

in that. And I just remember that feeling of I'm not scared about the witchcraft and the spirituality as in I'm going to hell. I'm just scared about why people have this reaction from it. Because for me, it's natural. But

Laurel Kassor (46:21)

I'm gonna guess what age it was that this memory is coming from. And by guess I mean I'm going to use my tools and apply my technique and very likely be accurate because this is likely your Neptune moment that you just described, which hearkens it back to the Pluto moment.

from our youth because, and listen to what you literally just said, I don't understand why you're having this reaction to me. This is just natural for me.

Desiree (46:49)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (46:49)

It's a fractal lens on being on the receiving end of racism for the first time.

You know, and it's coming from Neptune. So it's talking, it's happening in a different dimension, but this is now Neptune in Capricorn. This is about age 15-ish, roughly.

Desiree (47:05)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (47:06)

This is in the sextile aspect, which it's opening sextile. So it has a Pillar three echo, transit going between, getting on the train, reading books, Pluto's in the third house, the interest in occult books or mystery

Desiree (47:18)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (47:19)

books, mystery school.

was

so Pluto and Mars in your third house. it added so literal and sexile to the Neptune, of course. We didn't say it before, but the diving deeper after the Twin Tower event.

Desiree (47:32)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (47:34)

This was also a moment in time when your Jupiter was activated by trine.

Desiree (47:37)

and

Laurel Kassor (47:38)

Your Jupiter is in a relatively loose trine to your Saturn, but once Saturn got activated, all of the other planets come in, even if they are not in direct aspect to Jupiter. Because they're in a...

dominoed in so that's where the Jupiter in Aries in the eighth in the trine to all these Sagittarius so forging ahead obviously Jupiter rules over or governs over these planets in Sagittarius

Desiree (48:01)

you

Laurel Kassor (48:02)

so this is to me huge moment huge moment that showed you so much about whoo yeah

I gotta figure this shit out, for real, for real. if it came online the first time when you were two and it was yeah, we gotta figure out how to become the instrument. here is honing yourself into the proper conduit and channel

Desiree (48:21)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (48:21)

where you're safe enough to hold and receive big wild transmissions that could rock somebody else. But for

Desiree (48:30)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (48:30)

you, we have this

technical skill to interpret and with a bit of objectivity too, because Uranus is the slowest planet in that cellium, which means it's ultimately the one holding them, giving the rest of them a big old bear hug. They all got Uranus twinged, you know? So that's super interesting. And then it flows into this Neptune moment, which harkens back.

to those early experiences of racism and of being

Desiree (48:55)

Mmm.

Laurel Kassor (48:56)

othered for something that is literally just in your blood,

why are you judging me, dude? going to hell, because as soon as you said going to hell, I was like, we are a trillion percent talking about the Neptune sextile Pluto. Over there with the demons and the books, the books about, yeah, so Of course.

Desiree (49:10)

Yeah. Can I ask if there's anything

around age 17? Okay,

Laurel Kassor (49:18)

That's actually our next stop.

Desiree (49:20)

good.

Laurel Kassor (49:21)

That's our next stop. Thank you for boarding this train. Our next stop, my friend, is Ceres and Venus together hanging out at literally age 17 and 18. They

Desiree (49:37)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (49:38)

are right there in that year.

In our system, we treat Ceres as the planetary counterpart to Pillar two, which is the anchor Pillar, is the sustainability Pillar, is the stability.

and it relates to Taurus and the second house and the opening semi-sextile as well. And so she's in Capricorn, she's conjunct Venus, who is the planet of Pillar seven, who is associated with Libra and the seventh house and the opposition. And they are together merged into kind of one force for you. So for you,

And this makes so much sense before I even leave, these words leave my lips. God, duh. If you guys

Desiree (50:22)

Okay.

Laurel Kassor (50:23)

need spell work done, this girl, this girl. The reason I say this is because I very much view Ceres as an anchor point of reality. she is the physical stuff.

She's our things,

Desiree (50:37)

Mmm.

Laurel Kassor (50:38)

she's a sense of possession, she represents the body so often, so often. She is density, okay? And Venus.

is attraction. She's the force of attraction, she's the force of polarity, she's the force of what one wants, what one desires, what one agrees to, what one accommodates. And when you put those things together, you literally get manifestation quick. Like, quick style. Because the ability to polarize to what one desires,

Desiree (51:11)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (51:12)

Venus, and the ability to

anchor it to reality, Ceres are functioning as one force together. Which is great if you are doing spell work, which is great if you are calling things in and calling things down. So that's just the way that that's obviously connecting to so much of your work. And it's in Capricorn, so professional manifestor, what up? Right,

Desiree (51:35)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (51:36)

that pulls us back to the 10th Pillar again.

where Chiron is and we just talked about how Chiron is this one guy up there who's gotta master the skill. And so these two are down here at this age. are, Ceres by the way, is in a exact quincunx to Chiron. This quincunx is waning. So it has to do with Pillar eight, the alchemy Pillar.

Desiree (52:03)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (52:03)

This

is Pluto, this is Scorpio, this is the Eighth House, and it is this aspect

Desiree (52:08)

You don't.

Laurel Kassor (52:09)

as well. so, our sense of satisfaction, contentment, stability, resources is a huge, serous thing, bodies, hormones, cycles, rhythms, it's all Ceres Anyway, it is in a...

complicated relationship to our skill set and likely having to do with our voice and maybe owning our voice in some way. I would assume there's a relational quality involved too with Venus here as well. So anyway, I yapped a whole heck of a lot. So why don't you tell us about what was happening at this age?

Desiree (52:47)

So I definitely was even more involved in witchcraft and that was at that point it was daily life. I also at that point was living in this beautiful countryside housed. had lots of

garden space. So I was always out in my gardens with nature, with the plant spirits.

Laurel Kassor (53:08)

my god, you're killing me right now. everyone's watching the YouTube right now. I'm like going apeshit because gardens, flowers, beautiful garden flowers where we're planting and nature. just was so literal.

Desiree (53:19)

And

yes, I remember creating really working a lot connecting deep with the spirit of plants already and receiving messages from that and so on. And also, you know, I remember as well as I was working through with witchcraft on a deeper level and doing self initiations, I was working on already making spell oils. so

Laurel Kassor (53:39)

Mmm, products.

Products, Ceres is products,

Desiree (53:43)

So for me, I mean, I do sell spell oils. But here's the thing, 17, I had the near death experience.

Laurel Kassor (53:53)

Great connection.

the I don't mean to get excited about your near-death experience, but I'm just gonna I'm gonna own it. I'm gonna own it. I'm excited to hear about it

Desiree (54:01)

So

what happened is, so first of all, I have a very high pain tolerance and I just don't say it just no, I really have a really high pain tolerance. So, yeah,

Laurel Kassor (54:08)

if you're saying it, then you truly must. truly must.

Desiree (54:12)

to the point that it doesn't serve me well. But so my appendix burst and I was at home thinking I just have a really high fever and stomach issues and

At the same time, I was also on my bleed and I've had a history since very young, from when they started, where I would always be extremely sick on my periods, extremely. The first day I would not be able to eat anything because I would be sick sometimes I would literally pass out from it.

I know know, it's probably just my period and a stomach bug that is going around because when my mom called my doctor, it's like, there's a stomach bug. So I was with my appendix burst at home and really high fever for a couple of days. Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (54:55)

I was literally about to say how many days. Please

don't tell me it was a week.

Desiree (55:00)

It wasn't a week, but it was definitely a couple of days so

Laurel Kassor (55:02)

Did you go septic? what happened

Desiree (55:05)

I just remember that literally my mom and my stepdad were about to go out for dinner because I was like no you guys go what are you gonna do? you know, so it's do you want to go to hospital? It's like no, like it's gonna be fine, you know And also mind you at this same time, I think

I think it was like on the news, there was a lot of people that had had complications from appendix issues in Italy. But my parents were about to leave. I it got to the point I tried to drink some water and it just straight away came back out. So I was like, you know what?

Maybe let's go to the hospital because this is a bit suspicious now.

Laurel Kassor (55:47)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (55:48)

So we go to the hospital. They, I mean, it takes them a long time to figure out even that there is an issue. They just put me, they literally put me into like infectious diseases and there must be a bug. I'm like, meanwhile, literally my white blood cells were so low.

because my body had

Laurel Kassor (56:08)

Mm.

Desiree (56:08)

been fighting this, trying to fight it for so long. And I just remember so distinctively, I'm about to go and I'm okay with that.

Laurel Kassor (56:18)

What the Venus Peace Agreement

Desiree (56:20)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (56:20)

make, my God, wow.

Desiree (56:22)

Luckily,

there was a young doctor that had finished his shift, but was I'm not going on to understand what's wrong with her. And I honestly think that that's the only thing that saved me. And through this all, no one had done the easiest test of two fingers that you put towards there. And if there is a resistance and the pain goes stronger than, you know, there's liquid and there's something happening. He does that.

Laurel Kassor (56:44)

They missed it?

Desiree (56:46)

And he's like,

Okay, she needs emergency surgery immediately. So I'm in surgery for hours, many hours. They have to take every organ out, wash, bring back in. I know, sorry, maybe it's a bit too graphic.

Laurel Kassor (57:03)

No, no,

I am not squeamish. Sorry. We'll put a trigger warning on it for the squeamish folk.

Desiree (57:08)

Disclaimer. Sorry.

Laurel Kassor (57:11)

No, I'm more just holy moly, the trauma your body went through.

Desiree (57:15)

Mm-hmm. And

then basically the surgery ends and they tell my mom, we don't know if she's going to make it. if she survives the next few days, then she might make it. So that was how serious this was. And I was just at home, like chilling, like I'm a bit in pain. Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (57:34)

Yeah, I'm a little uncomfortable.

Desiree (57:38)

So. I

Laurel Kassor (57:39)

Wow.

Desiree (57:40)

spent almost a month

in the hospital and the only reason why they let me go earlier is because they needed hospital beds but you know I digress

Laurel Kassor (57:50)

Bye!

Desiree (57:50)

because I needed to stay longer and had to then go back in every single day for stitches and stuff but I completely lost some memories of what happened just before days before and people that maybe I've met before my operation

and I don't really remember the first week. So I, my earliest memory of all of that was at one point a doctor opening, you know, the gauze and me seeing what happened to my body, which I have a very

Laurel Kassor (58:21)

you

Desiree (58:21)

big scar on my stomach. So freaking out and that in the moment. But anyway, I started really regained consciousness and not being in and out of it. And that's when my body is recovering and it's being gay.

given a lot of vitamins and things to replenish all that I'd lost. So on that level, there's also a level of spiritual protection that I don't have available to me because I don't have the strength. So what started to happen once I gained back consciousness, every single night I would go into dream work.

Laurel Kassor (58:54)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (58:55)

And every single night I would be transported into someone else's life. And also, I don't know if it was a different dimension or whatever, but someone else's life, and it was a very boring life because they were just going to school in the States because I remember the yellow bus and everything. And I was just sitting there. And the only way that I would...

be able to get myself out of all of that every single time, because I didn't have the strength to do it, was I had to get myself into a panic of if I am here, then it means that I no longer exist. And that would take me out. every night,

Laurel Kassor (59:34)

the existential.

Desiree (59:36)

every night I had to do this because otherwise I wouldn't get out of it and I would just be in it for hours and hours.

So there was a different of opening of, now you're also seeing things, you know, seeing other people's life through dreams or things. And again, and every time I knew I'm not in a dream.

Laurel Kassor (59:56)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Wow. Okay. Whoa.

Desiree (59:58)

So yeah, that happened.

Laurel Kassor (1:00:01)

That is... Thank you. Thank you for sharing. That's incredible. There are so many pieces of the energetics coming to life through that story. I'm gonna miss some of them. I know I'm gonna... It's gonna haunt me But a couple of things right away.

What's so fascinating here is that this Ceres-Venus conjunction, which again happens very close together and it is very much having to do with the body and the relationship to the body. So one thing that popped out right away was when you mentioned the scar and then the venus. So the aesthetic piece of venus comes through there. Other parts of it, of course, are these

to these doctors, okay? Let's talk about that part for a second because that really stood out.

so loudly so Capricorn Pillar 10 stuff can show up as professionals It can show up as people who are supposed to be authorities, right? We better fucking hope our doctors are good at what they do and they have mastered the craft, right? And so what we're seeing here is this very interesting combination where we have We have Pillar 10 all over this bitch because we have Capricorn planets We have this aspect of Chiron in the 10th

house. Also, Saturn is in a semi-sextile. To Venus and Ceres.

over there so Saturn's involved, which means the whole Sagittarius stellium is involved. So guess what? The thing we just covered about how that Sagittarius stellium really seemed to represent this need to get your skill under control, getting the skill honed and trained, fancy the fact that it came back as an echo in a new version with a new elevation. The interesting thing, I know I'm going to pop around the chart for this one, but the interesting thing is that the semi-sextile

It is a opening semi-sextile, so it has the undertone, the dynamic of Pillar 2, which happens to be Ceres' Pillar here. So there is a quality of we really need to consolidate and condense.

our structure, our system, our rules, our boundaries, also our downloads. There's Uranus coming in very tight in this semi-sextile, because guess what?

your body's this physical instrument to receive these, again, these big picture downloads. And at this point in time, we're seeing what can happen if we are not training the body appropriately in some way, shape, or form. Now, this is not me trying to say like, because...

You're, you weren't skilled enough, you're appendix burst I'm saying there is an energetic link between this idea of like, we gotta have some sort of reason to make a choice because this is in the fifth house. So this does have to do with choices. This has to do with confidence. This has to do with expression. The confidence factor we can easily tie to the scar on the body being part of

that Venus quality of the confidence in the fifth house, showmanship thing. But also there is this whole other thing about the fifth house, about validation, because it is part of Pillar five, which is the sun and Leo and the opening trine aspect. And so this energy is kind of it's also Capricorn, so it's time for us to get very serious about grounding.

Desiree (1:03:27)

you

Laurel Kassor (1:03:28)

our commitment, Ceres Venus, to the studies. Because guess what? the Sagittarius Planets it's in contact with, and Chiron in Gemini it's in contact with, and the nodes as well. So we know these nodes have been.

vibrant already in various parts and they all revolve around these visions or these experiences of there being an element of like pain unfortunately in them a bit but sacrifice of loss and let's say I know we haven't really talked about the north we talked a lot about the south note part but your north nodes in Pisces so the import of vision of seeing of

channeling, channeling, channeling is such a Pillar 12 thing and Pisces part of the Pillar 12 family. we are seeing, especially as we're getting later into your timeline, how this went from like, have not the skills for this to more and more happenings that are teaching you about the dangers of the invisible realm, invisible dangers of the world, the hidden dangers of the world and

What happened invisibly inside your body. You couldn't see it or else go if you could see that it was your appendix that had ruptured I really doubt you would have waited that long

Desiree (1:04:43)

Nope.

Laurel Kassor (1:04:43)

So again, there's this echoing idea kind of in the midst of all this energy And I know we didn't sit around and talk about that Neptune placements to because so we could get to this one here, but This is all part of kind of this undertone of where your North Node

has been kind of, from the beginning, inviting you to take this out of the collective, you take this into your system, take these visions, take these outside of time. You mentioned, you're like, I don't know if it was this realm or a different one, I find Pillar 12 to be extraordinarily multi-dimensional, you know,

Desiree (1:05:16)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:05:17)

very mystical. And so it seems in addition to all of these other things that the closer we're getting to the experience

points of the North Node, more serious, we could say, the commitment to craft is becoming.

Desiree (1:05:35)

Mm.

Laurel Kassor (1:05:35)

Because guess what? except for those early elementary school topics we spoke on, everyone else that we've been talking on basically since you were, you know, in your early teens,

has all been activating Chiron and the need to develop some sort of practical educational process of information interpretation with rules with boundaries with sanctions with yes I'm ready to receive no I'm not ready to receive kind of energies because

this was the point where it got physical. I'm gonna connect a dot here, but you had said you'd never talked about the Twin Tower vision that you had until maybe late, much later.

but your chirod's in retrograde in Gemini, so there's something about keeping the voice turning and turning, the voice coming in. And then let's not forget, Pillar Six does have a lot to do with health. It does have a lot to do with the processes of the body.

Desiree (1:06:39)

Mm.

Laurel Kassor (1:06:39)

Ceres

has a lot to do. I had mentioned this when I was naming things off earlier, but I had mentioned hormones. Hello, you brought that up. You were on your cycle. it then that was and then we have the Venus aspect of that too and the feminine, you know, all those associations, but

Desiree (1:06:53)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:06:53)

either way this energy making the Pillar 8 essence connection to Chiron

up there was like, wow, this is starting to get life and death - OUR life and death, not just other people's anymore, but ours now. If we don't get this shit under control, and I say under control because this is Capricorn

It does want order, order, order. We want success. We cannot fail at this because if we fail part of what might have been

energetically subconsciously experienced here is like, if we don't get this shit under control, then like, we might die, we might perish. We are meant to be here and we might perish And so I think that that's part of that transformational undertone. This might've been the point of metabolization where it was like, wow, yeah, I know I've been working on it, but it seems we need to go maybe even a little bit harder into it to really.

Desiree (1:07:46)

Mm.

Laurel Kassor (1:07:46)

refine our practice and refine our systems and refine the ways we're communicating about what it is we're building and the choices that we're making around our skill.

So to me it's like, finally we're seeing it. We're seeing why the importance.

Desiree (1:08:03)

Mm.

Laurel Kassor (1:08:03)

of the skill building. It's in the sextile to the north node, so it's kind of saying yeah, this is the disruption you needed to start bringing in these this Piscean energy, but in a state of flow, in a state of structured flow. It's almost let's build a dam for this hydropower, hydronic power. I don't know why those were the words that just popped into my head, but it was it's like if we're to have all this fucking water we're bringing in, we got to make sure it's

moving the right way so we can interpret it because for you it's it's really again so much is rooted into that Sagittarian undertone. There's so much about interpreting these visions interpreting the emotional and the spiritual data that you are here to take in.

there was one more thing that I wanted to make sure I said. The young doctor being the one who listened to you. I lost my shit at that because this energy is speaking to me to very much part of the Sagittarius thing

This energy is so much this multiple parts of the aspect, one of them is the opening semi-sextile to all those Sagittarius planets. Remember the opening semi-sextile has a Pillar Two anchor undertone and that young doctor wouldn't leave. He wouldn't budge until he applied his knowledge.

and his studies, he was new, he was still excited to be I know things, you know, and explore, explore, what could be the curiosity, he was curious enough to explore what still could be wrong with you, right? This also brought in the,

waning quincunx to Chiron in retrograde in Gemini. Gemini tends to be associated with young people, people who are students, right, young people. This was a young doctor, so he was fresh from school, and he also wanted to

Desiree (1:09:46)

Mm.

Laurel Kassor (1:09:46)

practice, and that's Chiron, a practitioner, a literal practitioner. I very much describe Chiron often as the medic.

Desiree (1:09:55)

Mmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:09:56)

when 6 meets Pillar 10. A doctor is born in often

Desiree (1:10:01)

You

Laurel Kassor (1:10:02)

times, but somebody who wants to become a master practitioner of earthy physical systems.

Desiree (1:10:10)

interesting.

Laurel Kassor (1:10:10)

that require process.

because of the giant stellium, it pulls in so many different qualities into the narratives and it weaves them all together. But this was obviously a critical moment, which is not, is that not what's Pillar eight, the alchemical Pillar of life and death and getting into the underbelly?

of change and transformation and empowerment comes through with this energy, loud and clear. Wow. Very cool.

Desiree (1:10:48)

Fascinating.

And I think also it's just because the other doctors were failing at doing the right

Laurel Kassor (1:10:54)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (1:10:55)

tests and everything. think it's always so fascinating for me to think about that. Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:11:00)

Yeah, and that even too. Diagnosing is a chiron thing, it's a Pillar six thing. Test is a Pillar ten thing.

failing is a Pillar 10 thing. It's like written all over the place. wow, it's so literal. And it's so fascinating that again, I'm gonna loop it back directly connected with the skill of receiving the big picture, if you will, of being able to hold the big picture in a way that is safe for you.

because whatever ways you were previously, by that point it was not healthy anymore. It needed to be exercised quite literally, taken out of your body and cleansed. When you said that they took your organs out and they washed them all, I was like holy Pillar eight, man, because purification is

Desiree (1:11:45)

You

Laurel Kassor (1:11:46)

such a...

piece of that process of literally going into the guts and cleaning it and purifying it and making sure it's all healed. It's all healed. So it's very literal. It's crazy that that is also extends to your practice and not just your body.

Desiree (1:12:05)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:12:06)

are you mind blown?

Desiree (1:12:08)

Yeah, I'm very mind

blown. It's wild. I'm curious to see what's next. Because it's like, well, you know, these

Laurel Kassor (1:12:15)

So that is, we don't know.

Desiree (1:12:18)

things happen, but there's more.

Laurel Kassor (1:12:20)

There's always

more, there's always more. And the next planet you have isn't gonna end up being until your mid-40s and it'll be Jupiter. It'll be your Jupiter in Aries in the eighth house. expansion of the self and healing.

But you did hit the North Node already, though I do believe.

at about age 30.

Six. Was there anything

Desiree (1:12:51)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:12:52)

that was going on then? And that's pretty recent, pretty recent, yeah?

Desiree (1:12:57)

So that would have been not me getting out of calculator because not me and math.

Laurel Kassor (1:13:02)

Hahaha

Desiree (1:13:03)

So that was two, three years ago.

Laurel Kassor (1:13:06)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (1:13:07)

So age 36 so

Laurel Kassor (1:13:09)

Yep.

Desiree (1:13:10)

that would have been The first time that I went to New Orleans

Laurel Kassor (1:13:16)

my gosh, best for last, best for last. Okay. Tell us all about it.

This is your North node moment. And

Desiree (1:13:25)

You

Laurel Kassor (1:13:26)

so it's going to direct, holy moly. Okay. It's gonna connect so, it's gonna connect to all of the fourth house ancestral lineage stuff that we were talking about before. So now we're gonna get to see how that and the time around that twin tower

Desiree (1:13:41)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:13:41)

moment.

into what you took it and ran with it and had it become. So, my god, I'm so excited. Please take it away.

Desiree (1:13:46)

Yeah. So

of course, by that point, three years ago, I'm also very deep in years into my business, many years of of of holding my business and developing it. I remember that point also, that year around February.

There was the break of my longest relationship that I had at that point, which was not serving me and was not the right person. Absolutely. So that being a big catalyst of actually, as soon as that weight literally was lifted, there's a massive expansion of even deeper of my work and opportunities coming in.

And I remember traveling before I go to New Orleans, I was meant to not even go there. Let's start there. I was not meant to go there. Absolutely not. So I was just meant to go to near San Francisco for the graduation of the School of the Sacred Wild that I'd been at that point in over for many, many years to get

my certification in herbalism, working with plant spirit in a shamanic way and all these things that I've been working for many years. So I was meant to just go there, just there. I could not physically purchase the flight. There was something that every time I was going to purchase, there was something saying I need to go to New Orleans first.

And it made no sense. mean, at that point, my ex had moved out. it was a lot of you know, money wise, it didn't make sense for me to now put on this big purchase or things that. So I was even do I even go to my graduation? Yes, you need to go. OK, I'm going. And I keep getting this message, you you need to go to New Orleans. Literally, I can only describe it as my ancestors.

shouting at me So I'm

Laurel Kassor (1:15:38)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (1:15:39)

okay, I I then somehow find the perfect way to spend the Purchase a flight that I spend a couple of days there and then go to San Francisco after it just works out so perfectly The moment that I book it I Find also out that the the days that I'm there there's a witches festival happening

Laurel Kassor (1:15:58)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (1:16:00)

And

I'm that's so weird that that is exactly the time that I'm going to be there. OK. What a coincidence. my God. Look at the

Laurel Kassor (1:16:04)

what a coincidence! my god! Who would thought?

Desiree (1:16:09)

universe putting two and two together. who would have thought? Please give me a sign near sign, because I'm still not sure I'm am I really meant to go? I'm not sure. Give me another. So so again, all this is happening. Meanwhile, I'm still finishing up my.

exam for the graduation and literally days before traveling I get COVID. And in one

Laurel Kassor (1:16:35)

Mmm!

Desiree (1:16:36)

of the strongest ways that I ever had it, and I was still finishing the exam up and also was gosh, this is really affecting my body in a very strong way. I go back to the planned spirits and they literally

I'm sitting with Oatstra, I'm sitting with Tulsi and they clear everything out to the point that literally I think two days before I'm flying out it felt I had nothing and I was then clear it felt nothing had happened but meanwhile before that I had the highest fever and I couldn't breathe

Laurel Kassor (1:17:11)

Mm.

Desiree (1:17:13)

but also all of this then to the point that I'm so fine

that it almost feels that purification needed to happen almost in the body to then go there and be absolutely fine while they are traveling. So I get on a plane, I get there. My period was meant to seven days after. So I was like, at my graduation.

That's when it's gonna, you know, a couple of days after and I'm actually then almost on my way back. That's when it's gonna happen. I've always worked with womb healing. I've helped many, many women to deal with the issues with cycles and helping them even to the point of, you know, helping with infertility. womb healing and stuff like that. My womb is amazing.

Laurel Kassor (1:17:57)

be remiss not to point out this, because we talked about Ceres and Venus already, but in the scope of a trauma. But there are so many ways she comes through. You're mid-heaven, so the point in your chart that has to do with business and reputation and legacy and what you construct and contribute to society, etc., etc., career in this capitalist bullshit we find ourselves in.

The ruler of Taurus via my system is Ceres. Ceres is conjunct Venus and I've mentioned already, I was like, Ceres has a lot to do with cycles And so to me this is very much what you're describing about like this being a very important part of your business, the womb healing with...

herbs also totally

Desiree (1:18:40)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:18:41)

herbs totally of the earth the healing because remember once this energy came online it sparked up the template of we really have to go into the the the deep depths of transformational skill set

Desiree (1:18:55)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:18:56)

to transform the body and then all of your stellium

down there in the fourth house is literally the womb. It's womb stuff. It's the moon in the fourth house plus the rest of those planets down there all making aspects there. So it's super interesting to see the multiple ways that this is coming through and this energy is activated at this time period

Desiree (1:19:15)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:19:16)

as well. So please continue, okay.

Desiree (1:19:19)

Yeah, because also

for me is I didn't just train as a folk herbalist. I also have the root worker side with my ancestry. So they're just those two things. But so I land in New Orleans. The moment that I land. I start bleeding. And there was something specifically that I got this message about. This is about bleeding on your ancestral lands, because I am.

African American. You know, part of me is African American. And so when I looked deeper at all my ancestry, New Orleans was one of the main parts where it all started. And I'll give you another lore when I did my whole ancestry, literally my ancestors and the part of, you know, group that they were part of.

is literally written on my my ancestry. They were all about keeping the spirituality alive. And I was like, I was

Laurel Kassor (1:20:12)

my god.

Desiree (1:20:14)

there's no way that that is written. And I was like, yeah, that was

Laurel Kassor (1:20:17)

Mmm.

Desiree (1:20:19)

my ancestors.

Laurel Kassor (1:20:21)

Wow, that's really cool, because obviously, Pillar 4 and the fourth house and stuff, I do find that Jupiter and Sagittarius have hands in the lineage pots, you know? And so it's very cool that you adventured, you literally adventured to your ancestral land, to...

Desiree (1:20:42)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:20:44)

In a sense,

merge bodies with it too,

Desiree (1:20:48)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:20:49)

you know what I mean? And that brings in some of that Ceres and some of that Venus and some of these other connections and the way everything's ping-ponging

Desiree (1:20:55)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:20:56)

it back and the fact that my gosh, it was just what a skill building moment. I bet just going there was a level up.

Desiree (1:21:03)

Yeah, and I had been in the States before when I was 21, where my dad is and spent a long time, a couple of months there with my family. So there was a deeper connection there as well. yeah, so when I am at land, I start bleeding and straight away I'm this is not the normal way my period goes.

because it's just constantly bleeding. There's no pain, no anything or, or no feeling I was like out and about every single day. I had all the energy. was just that I had all the energy and everything and I was, you know, walking, I don't know how many steps every day in one of the hottest. They were literally everyone that was talking to you came into we haven't had this heat this since Katrina. Literally. This is the first time. And I was like,

Laurel Kassor (1:21:49)

Yeah, it's a freaking sw- it's

a literal swamp.

Desiree (1:21:52)

But it was

that was the hottest that there had been in years.

Laurel Kassor (1:21:55)

Yeah.

Desiree (1:21:56)

So, and I was like, I hate the heat. I hate the heat. We are having a heat wave here in the

Laurel Kassor (1:22:00)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (1:22:03)

UK right now. And I'm But when I go in the heat in New Orleans, I'm my God, I feel amazing. Also something weird with that. so I'm breathing and I'm there and I'm having these powerful experiences, meeting people. met...

a woman that literally feels a sister and we literally call ourselves sisters, but and we have this weird connection of also having the same her name is my second name and there's this weird connection about that anyway. And I meet

Laurel Kassor (1:22:28)

love that.

Desiree (1:22:29)

her at that witchcraft festival and now we've been so close friends since that. But again, I'm going, I'm exploring, I'm really feeling the land. I also go into

the Whitney plantation, is created as very much a museum to show what, how bad it was and how why this should never ever happen again. And when I tell you when I was there, again, not to be graphic or anything, but, and this was already towards the end of my journey there. My period should have been starting to not be.

existent anymore.

Laurel Kassor (1:23:04)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (1:23:05)

I was walking around this plantation and the blood just wouldn't stop to the point that I had to cap

Laurel Kassor (1:23:11)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (1:23:13)

and it was and that blood is staying on the plantation. It was a blood offering back to my ancestors and they felt it and since then they have been even stronger with me.

it was such a powerful journey. It activated so much and reconnected me to my roots even more. But also what is fascinating, each time that I've been back and I've now been back several times there to New Orleans, each time there's something that happens with with bleeding. Yeah, so.

Laurel Kassor (1:23:41)

Really? Interesting.

Desiree (1:23:45)

So this time.

It came again when it wasn't meant to come the last time that I was in March and there was another really big activation. So I always go back to Bukubhudu, a hudu festival in March there,

Laurel Kassor (1:23:57)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Desiree (1:23:58)

which I go really much to be there of service and to be there with ancestors and elders. And, you know, a few days after that...

I went to Cemetery Number One, where Marie Laveau is buried there. And I had this whole, again, this experience with so much blood.

Laurel Kassor (1:24:14)

this... I just listened to a

whole podcast about her. So timely.

how could you even find words for such experiences? this would have been around that North Node moment, which is in your eighth house of inheritance, which is where your Jupiter is, in Aries. When you said there's always been something with bleeding and blood, I was like, okay, where's our Aries at? Where's our Mars at? Where's our first

Desiree (1:24:38)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:24:38)

house at? The conjunctions, I think, to the stellium that you have.

Aesthelium is series of conjunctions.

Desiree (1:24:46)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:24:47)

Your Venus and your Ceres are conjunct, each other. Conjunctions carry this element or this essence of the first Pillar. The first Pillar

Desiree (1:24:55)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:24:56)

is the Aries Mars LIFE

force energy, you know? And

Desiree (1:25:03)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:25:04)

so like, I think with this activation, at least this first one,

these Pillar eight themes, like the North Node in the Eighth House.

You're Jupiter in the eighth house. this is about inheritance in so many ways and so many different gifts as well and opportunities. would say, know, Jupiter, I know we haven't reached it there technically in your like lived experience. Yeah, but like Jupiter and Aries, we can assume that when you hit this point, it will be another very large ancestral activation because all of that stellium reports

Desiree (1:25:37)

Yeah, because that is

Laurel Kassor (1:25:38)

to Jupiter.

Desiree (1:25:38)

in a couple of years, right?

Laurel Kassor (1:25:40)

Yeah, it's about 44, 43,

Speak to this and again Pillar for all this stuff is happening in the fourth house with the moon there too. let's not forget that You know for not having any actual cancer placement. There's a lot of the tone of what cancer cares about

which is the roots, which is where we come from, which is the origin, which is what that fourth house represents, right? And this idea of this ancestral journey that you're on is so the Sagittarius or the Pillar Nine qualities mixing in and this idea of feeling safe enough.

to expand, you know? We didn't really dig too deep into it there's just been so many cool fucking things to talk about. But I know I mentioned it briefly at the top, but there is this idea about safety. If we're going to expand, we need to be safe and supported properly. And I believe that that's where the ancestry comes in as a through line throughout so much of your story is this idea

Desiree (1:26:41)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:26:42)

of ancestral support as kind of a big constant hug that's ongoing.

growing, to keep you growing, keep you going. And I think that that's part of what we can surmise from having the ruler of five planets in Aries.

It's like keep growing, keep going, keep going, keep growing.

You know, I don't mean to speak on behalf of your spirit here, but the impression I'm getting as I'm channeling some of this through the chart is that you're like, okay, I will, but you must support me properly

Desiree (1:27:14)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:27:14)

if I am to be this channel for you. If I am to take the physical actions in the physical world that will progress and grow, whatever it is we're doing here.

then I must have the support and then there's this and here comes that opposition to Tyron in Gemini in the 10th retrograde where it's literally a relationship between your skill, the information

Desiree (1:27:38)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:27:38)

that you receive via skill, and the support you receive for the interpretive deciphering in a sense.

the parts of it and putting them back together. So I could probably babble and spiral all around these ideas forever, But it's fucking very cool. Super cool. Thank you so much for sharing.

Desiree (1:27:58)

Of course.

And I feel like, yeah, that is that thing for me, you know, because of having over three decades of doing all the spiritual work and doing it before the internet and things. Some things that I see now in the spiritual world really activate me into, no, there needs to be a revolution because there's so many things that

a deeper knowledge, a deeper protection, a deeper connection into it. sometimes we are the community of FFLIFTS, maybe some that are not ready for that work yet. they might get too scared of the work that they're doing because they're not grounded, rooted.

They haven't done the shadow work and things that, so they run back to something that was safer.

the word integrity gets thrown everywhere now. But throughout all my work, integrity has always been one of the deepest things and most important parts when it was from walking away from spaces, spiritual spaces that had literally been racist against me.

and other practitioners and completely stopping to talk to practitioners that were still well, but I have the opportunity to hold something there. And I'm like, you're holding something in a place that isn't safe.

Laurel Kassor (1:29:11)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (1:29:12)

know, experiences this or, know, I've worked for so many years with plant spirits, the amount of times that I've been asked to hold, can you hold a cacao ceremony?

And the spirit of cacao is always be like, not me because I'm overused. I don't want to be out here. Call upon all these other spirits that want to come out. I've lost out on thousands because of that. And I'm happy about that. Because for me, it was more about the integrity that, well, I can just quickly do this. No.

So, you know, I think there needs to be back up at this level of really because the spiritual industry has so many things that there are in regulations. So then you're relying on is your practitioner actually safe? Do they have integrity?

Laurel Kassor (1:30:11)

A moral compass, know,

Desiree (1:30:13)

and more

Laurel Kassor (1:30:13)

what principles are they? It's very Sagittarian what you're speaking on. I find

Desiree (1:30:16)

Yeah. Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:30:18)

this that to come deeply through the root system of the Sagittarian wisdoms, you know, what wisdoms were you preaching, are you preaching? You know, and is

Desiree (1:30:27)

Mm.

Laurel Kassor (1:30:27)

that safe for me in my practice, in my life, in my experience? And I think that you...

having such a keen understanding truly of

Desiree (1:30:37)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:30:38)

what that means is

Desiree (1:30:40)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:30:41)

critical in this, especially right now, time period where there is a lot of changing happening and it's not

Desiree (1:30:47)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:30:48)

just in the spiritual fields, it's in the political spectrums, it is in communities across the globe.

Desiree (1:30:55)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:30:55)

Anyone with even a semblance of astrological knowledge knows that this is not an isolated incident that we are collectively moving through, you know? And

Desiree (1:31:03)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:31:06)

it's one of these periods of time where it's really important that I've been called the Aries in me, when it's like, the new regime! The new regime of healers!

Desiree (1:31:14)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:31:15)

We're coming to the front lines, bitches! But it is time to like, pioneer.

Desiree (1:31:21)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:31:22)

and fight a little bit for the new guard, if you will, and

Desiree (1:31:28)

Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:31:29)

being really clear about what is it regarding. Regarding a sense of sanctity, regarding a sense of human connection and collective integration. I think the nodal shift into Aquarius is gonna be a critical time for those lessons to start.

importing into the collective.

Desiree (1:31:50)

And I think maybe what we're also guarding and wanting to bring forward that the first thing in the collective that isn't practitioner and stuff, when they think about the spiritual industry, they don't think about grifters and someone that is going to steal

Laurel Kassor (1:32:04)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (1:32:05)

your money. Maybe it's time for that to shift into, you know, going back to the times where

We're guiding this thing in the whole world needs to shift. Go to the healers, go to the seers to see what is the right thing to do. Or you wanna go to battle with this, you first ask the seers. And maybe there needs to be a bringing back of the importance of these.

roles and the healers, the practitioners and bringing in like, no, this is where we trust this. Because it's not grifters, because it's people that actually we have uplifted the people that really know their shit. And so it stops being like, oh, yeah, you're a tarot reader Oh, yeah, you do you know, yeah. Or oh, you're a healer. Oh, yeah, you're out there. No. And instead of oh, you are that.

Wow, I'm excited to be in your presence because I know you're about to tell me something that is life-changing.

Laurel Kassor (1:33:11)

bringing it back to like throwing some fucking respect on the names of fucking advisors, counselors, oracles, consultants everywhere. I feel like

Desiree (1:33:17)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:33:19)

you're really speaking to Pillar 10 meeting Pillar nine, which is the Saturn to the Sag you know, where it's like respect the art of interpretation, thank you.

Desiree (1:33:30)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:33:31)

and professional interpreters.

Basically, right? that's a piece of this and you're so right. I mean, I couldn't agree with you anymore if I tried.

Desiree (1:33:42)

Yeah

Laurel Kassor (1:33:42)

In fact, I agree so much. I embraced...

title of

an astrological consultant I am a clarity

Desiree (1:33:49)

I love

Laurel Kassor (1:33:49)

consultant my skill is the ability to interpret these symbols but the thing I'm doing is providing you clarity that's and that's enough it doesn't need to be any fancier than that this is what

having a team of counselors, having a team of advisors, having a council of wise men. but you know,

Wise men, girlie pop edition.

Desiree (1:34:09)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:34:10)

And so yeah, I think it's happening. I think we are at the beginning of it. I am definitely thinking of this new era of consciousness as pretty long lasting. I think that we're rolling out into something that we might not.

see the end of in our lived time here. it is a fucking honor to be one of the forebearers at the cusp of creating this collective wave of change across the way we value ancient information.

I know we can wax poetics all day long.

It's late where you are, So before

Desiree (1:34:46)

You

Laurel Kassor (1:34:47)

we part here, I would love to hear what you're working on now and

Desiree (1:34:53)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:34:53)

where people can find you to work with you. Cause holy shit, you were made for this. I mean, there's no doubt.

Desiree (1:35:00)

You

Laurel Kassor (1:35:01)

Do we even need to loop around? no,

Desiree (1:35:02)

Mmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:35:03)

hello.

Desiree (1:35:04)

Thank you, thank you. Yeah, I do really feel that this is literally what I was made to do and I love that. I even through all the know, death and rebirths, we're like, another one? Cute, let's go, let's go on. Bring it on. Absolutely.

At the moment, so you can find me everywhere as @sacredwisemagick. That's where you can find me on everything. It's my website, it's my social media. I love threads. I'm a yapper on threads. Yeah, absolutely. I'm on Instagram, I'm on TikTok, a bit less there. But yeah, those are the places where you can find me online.

Eventually I'm bringing back my podcast, which I absolutely will want you to be on there. But with the ADHD,

Laurel Kassor (1:35:51)

Sign me up.

Desiree (1:35:52)

with the ADHD, let's see if it's now or if it's in three years. Could be anything, could be anything. Working with me, one of the easiest way for practitioners to work with me and starting to get involved with what I do is one of my business channeling sessions, which

I mean, I am a deep channeler.

that session is very, very deep. It's something that normally I would have used to only offer in my one-to-one mentorship with leaders, practitioners, millionaires.

and so on. But it's something that really came out as I want this to also be a way for people to meet and get connected with my magic and then literally be what the fuck was that? Because the feedback that has been throughout, doing this has really been, you just spoke to things in my business that I didn't know and reconnected with the energy of my business and now I feel

you know, inspired for that launch, inspired for that next step. And I'm moving actually connected with the energy of my business, not with, well, it makes sense strategically to do this now, even though I absolutely do not want to do this. So yeah, there's sometimes some really wild things that come out. There's been some sassy businesses that have really been like,

Laurel Kassor (1:37:05)

you

Desiree (1:37:06)

yeah, your business is literally annoyed at you because you keep pouring your fears into it.

So let's stop that, you know, and things like that. So that is kind of my, my best way to get into working, experiencing, and then literally

Laurel Kassor (1:37:20)

Hmm.

Desiree (1:37:21)

becoming like, my God, I need more.

I am in the process of launching a mastermind that is absolutely unmissable. And this is my Sacred Initiation Mastermind which is for practitioners.

coaches, healers that do want to step into being the change that is needed in the spiritual industry. Whether that's about the prices that they're charging for their worth, whether that's about learning how to really step into the integrity even deeper, whether it's about, you know, some of the pillars of it is also working on decolonizing your practice

Laurel Kassor (1:37:58)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (1:38:00)

and working on how do you have a sacred business?

in society right now.

Laurel Kassor (1:38:08)

A very important question that we all must be navigating at this time. yeah.

Desiree (1:38:14)

Yeah.

So there's that. And, and then there's one-on-one mentorship with me, especially at higher levels, my Sacred Founders one, which is, that is normally more catered more on people that have been doing this for a very long time and are really at the crossroads.

of their next initiation in the business and need the spiritual support. So it's a different level

Laurel Kassor (1:38:36)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (1:38:37)

of work and support. And for that, I only take very few women a year on that because it's so deep.

Laurel Kassor (1:38:46)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (1:38:46)

But yeah, so those are kind of some of the things where you can work with me.

Laurel Kassor (1:38:50)

my gosh, this has been so incredible. Thank you so much for sharing your story with me, for trusting me with your chart and the interpretation.

Desiree (1:39:00)

course.

Laurel Kassor (1:39:00)

Everyone go follow Desiree. Go get on the waitlist. I am just so truly grateful to be sitting in your presence. my gosh, thank you so much.

Desiree (1:39:11)

This has been so amazing. I love your deep knowledge and

Laurel Kassor (1:39:17)

This old thing.

Desiree (1:39:19)

the excitement that you have about interacting with someone's chart and seeing their story and putting two and two together in such a beautiful way and expanding

Laurel Kassor (1:39:28)

Thank

Desiree (1:39:29)

that. So yeah, I think this is absolutely something that, you know,

more healers and practitioners need to see to also understand I feel sometimes people can be lost in is this really my purpose and not and you're actually helping them see this was that you were literally meant to do this and I think this is so important

And obviously, you know, sometimes I do get, even without fully connecting with you and your business, you know, but I do get downloads that just want to come through and there was something coming through just as you were speaking about all of this, just before you started to speak about, This is needed. We need deeper levels of.

astrology in this way. But there was something about I just had this image of you were doing lives with the podcast.

And what

I could see, were like so many people in the comments. So I was like, oh, that's so fascinating. And I was like, I don't know if you ever had the thing of doing it live, but that's what I was coming through. So I wanted to share that.

Laurel Kassor (1:40:38)

Mm-hmm.

thank you, that's staying in the episode. We're speaking, and remember what I said earlier? I was like, wow, you have a way of really pulling things down and anchoring them.

Desiree (1:40:52)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:40:53)

You're not the first person to give me such inklings that have wanted to pop through on their own.

Desiree (1:41:00)

Hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:41:00)

deeply received, so gratefully received. I also feel that too.

I'm pulling the veil back everyone. I have a lot of worth wounds. I feel like this knowledge needs to be available for everybody

Desiree (1:41:14)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:41:15)

totally accessibly. Like I want people to know Soul A.R.C. Astrology

because it works. It connects dots in new ways. It provides

Desiree (1:41:25)

Mm-hmm.

Laurel Kassor (1:41:25)

a really potent

way to chew upon experiences from both an inner and outer lens at the same time. want more practitioners to know how to apply this practical lens to astrology for themselves. less time faltering around, like, what does this mean?

part of this whole thing is I also have been undercharging my whole life, I also don't know my own worth, I

Desiree (1:41:49)

yeah, I can see that.

Laurel Kassor (1:41:51)

I will say that in the last couple weeks I have officially like,

wow, you know what? It's cool that I'm a luxury asset. Like that's actually badass of me to be a luxury asset and even more to embrace it. And yet still, I'm sitting on this big wealth of knowledge that I need to have out.

exported into the collective and so this podcast feels like the perfect way to give freely

it's hard to like not sit in these spaces and care about the person you're sitting with, you know, and really

Desiree (1:42:22)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Laurel Kassor (1:42:24)

like want the best for them and want to see them prosper.

and let the fucking Man™ pay me to be the weird genius I am.

Of course you may.

Desiree (1:42:31)

Can I say something else? Okay.

So just a couple of things that are coming in with all of this that you're mentioning. First, something around your business is very much about this is a deeper expansion that is still coming in and will continue expanding even more. But also there was something that really wanted to be said about knowing that all that you are offering here, yes, it's free.

but it's a wealth of knowledge that if you were to offer this as a course, it would be extremely expensive. So you already offer, you're already doing the free work.

multiple times with this

Laurel Kassor (1:43:13)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (1:43:14)

and people are going to be able to access to hours and hours of knowledge for free that they can learn from that they can develop and then do their own research and go deeper. So what if this is already your free that is enough and you get to also then charge your worth

Laurel Kassor (1:43:36)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (1:43:37)

without

feeling I need to, is it okay for me to charge them more? But instead

Laurel Kassor (1:43:41)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (1:43:42)

knowing that this is already what you are giving so much for free and you get to charge your worth with other things that you do, whether it's the courses, whether it's one-to-one session or, and so on, a membership, whatever it is that you want to bring forward. what if also, because I shared today,

threads are yapped as usual and as shared. Over here I believe that healers, you know, should be millionaires and if you don't like that then don't follow me. But here's the thing because I think if a footballer can can get millions someone that is going to do a transformational work with you should also earn the same. But point back. So what if you actually learning that you are

in that luxury prices that you are because you deserve and you've given everyone that is listening back to this hours of knowledge here. So what if you get to also charge those prices and when you charge those prices, you are actually in that energy of being able to offer more for free if

Laurel Kassor (1:44:47)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (1:44:48)

you want to. And also a broke healer cannot help the whole community.

Laurel Kassor (1:44:54)

That's a fact.

Desiree (1:44:56)

A healer that is a millionaire can decide, you know what, next month I'm doing a whole mastermind for free and everyone can join.

Laurel Kassor (1:45:06)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Desiree (1:45:07)

but a broke healer

that is trying to support themselves cannot. So whenever I hear you should be charging only this prices because what about community? I can help community a lot more if I am supported and I can give back. And the amount of scholarships that I can give them, I can't give them if I'm trying to pay the bills and whatever. So maybe this

Laurel Kassor (1:45:30)

Mm-hmm.

Desiree (1:45:31)

is something here you have given multiple times.

Offerings for free and is amazing knowledge. So you Not only earned the luxury prices it's your right So I wanted to show that

Laurel Kassor (1:45:46)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

So deeply received! I am like reveling in it.

Your downloads are incredible, they're deeply received, they're really resonant, I very much appreciate it.

you for being here. Thank you for the message. Thank you for sharing your story and for taking this extra time to hang here. beautiful.

Desiree (1:46:08)

I loved it.

Laurel Kassor (1:46:10)

So good. We're gonna have to do this again. Yes. When you start your podcast up again, like let's kiki.

Desiree (1:46:12)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yes, absolutely, absolutely.

Laurel Kassor (1:46:17)

And if this episode has sparked curiosity about your own birth chart, which like, if it hasn't, what are you doing? Are you even watching? But anyway, let's connect. I'd love to support you. You will find one-on-one readings and resources, including my, after this, shouldn't even say, including my free, what the fuck am I looking at? Birth chart cheat sheet.

just so funny now. but you'll

Desiree (1:46:38)

Love that.

Laurel Kassor (1:46:38)

find those on my website, soularcastrology.com You can yap with me and Desiree on threads. You'll find me at Astro underscore Aries. And if you love listening to the podcast, imagine how much fun it's going to be to watch it on YouTube and actually see these charts for yourself. You can find me there @laurelkassor And babes, don't forget to stay in orbit by subscribing, leave us reviews and comments to let us know what's landing for you. And of course, sprinkle some stardust

by sharing this podcast with the Astro Hoes in your life. Until next time, Seekers, ad Astra!

Desiree (1:47:13)

Bye.